A Sumatran... something?

Rafngard · 17th July 2018, 02:48 AM

Hello All,

I recently acquired this Sumatran(?) knife, and it kind of confuses me. Both Zonneveld and the forum archives have yet to direct me to something that looks like this. The seller (who seems surprisingly knowledgeable) refereed to it as a sekin or perhaps a rencong, but I have yet to see an example that resembles mine. The blade and horn ferrule from this kuku rimau from the archives looks close, but the hilt and scabbard of mine are totally different, though the hilt of mind does look like it may have been modified.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8342

I'm attaching the seller's photos, which are, until I get a chance to take better photos, better than mine.

Edit: I am removing the sellers photos. I will update with my own in the near future.

Any thoughts? The seller estimated 1900-1940 for age.

Thanks,
Leif

Rafngard · 18th July 2018, 04:07 AM

Alright, let's try this again. These photos are ones I took this evening. They are not great, but but they are mine.

Have fun,
Leif

Roland_M · 18th July 2018, 12:01 PM

Hello,

that is an interessting dagger. The blade ist very corroded but the dress is fine. This makes me think, that the dress is much younger than the blade itself.

The blade is clearly no Rencong/Rentjong, since the base ist totally different.

I believe, this is a pretty old and nice Bugis Badek-blade from Sulawesi, 19th century or earlier, with a Rencong-based dress from 20th century.

Roland

kai · 18th July 2018, 01:16 PM

Hello Leif,

You pretty much nailed it already!

Your blade is genuine and most likely from the 19th century. It's a dagger type which hasn't been well documented and I believe we don't know its local name yet. Until we can ascertain a local name I have pegged this type as NN03 (NN for nomen nudum, i. e. without name) in my collection.

Hilt and pommel can be quite variable with this rare blade type - a feature also seen with other blades from the central Sumatran highlands; some of them exhibit typical sekin pommels (the nose on your example seems to be a modern repair though as is the replaced scabbard). Antique scabbards seem to support an origin from the Padang highlands (most likely diffusing from there into Minang-influenced neighbouring regions).

The single Lampung blade for which Michael obtained the name kuku rimau is quite different from these dagger-like blades with pronounced central rib. A tiger's *claw* is heavily curved and sharp at the tip and on the concave side - very much like the blades we know as korambi/kerambit/lawi ayam; this seems to correspond with contemporary Malay usage of this name, too. Thus, my preference to stay with NN03 for the time being...

BTW, your blade is on the slender side for this type: What are its dimensions (length, thickness, width, weight)?

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 18th July 2018, 01:27 PM

Dress is a substitution or replacement, blade is from a beladau, that in Jawa will be called a jambiyo.

I have owned several of these but in correct dress.

kai · 18th July 2018, 02:00 PM

Seems we crossed posts, Alan!

I believe this is a class of blades distinct from the coastal Melayu beladau: the latter tend to have blades with a broader base (approaching their Arab in-laws

).

Usually beladau blades are also more strongly curved while the central Sumatran highland daggers NN03 tend to exhibit a slightly curved blade only; Leif's example shows the strongest curve I've seen so far (with most of the curve located at the base though).

Regards,
Kai

Rafngard · 19th July 2018, 12:45 AM

Firstly, thank you all for your responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

What are its dimensions (length, thickness, width, weight)?

Length
Over all: 28 cm
without scabbard: 27 cm
Blade alone: 20 cm

Thickness:
Blade tapers from .4cm near hilt to .1cm at tip

Width:
Blade tapers from 2cm to .7 cm

Weight:
95g total
72 without scabbard.

Also, I am hard pressed to come up with a better time to dream something up than after a bottle of Shiraz ;-)

Thanks,
Leif

Rafngard · 19th July 2018, 12:53 AM

Kai,

Do you have images of a correctly dressed example of NN03?

Thanks,
Leif

kai · 19th July 2018, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Firstly, thank you all for your responses.

You're welcome, Leif!

Thanks for the stats - sounds like a fair light blade, indeed.

Regards,
Kai

17th July 2018, 02:48 AM	#1
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	A Sumatran... something? Hello All, I recently acquired this Sumatran(?) knife, and it kind of confuses me. Both Zonneveld and the forum archives have yet to direct me to something that looks like this. The seller (who seems surprisingly knowledgeable) refereed to it as a sekin or perhaps a rencong, but I have yet to see an example that resembles mine. The blade and horn ferrule from this kuku rimau from the archives looks close, but the hilt and scabbard of mine are totally different, though the hilt of mind does look like it may have been modified. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8342 I'm attaching the seller's photos, which are, until I get a chance to take better photos, better than mine. Edit: I am removing the sellers photos. I will update with my own in the near future. Any thoughts? The seller estimated 1900-1940 for age. Thanks, Leif Last edited by Rafngard; 17th July 2018 at 03:25 PM. Reason: Seller reaues

18th July 2018, 04:07 AM	#2
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	Alright, let's try this again. These photos are ones I took this evening. They are not great, but but they are mine. Have fun, Leif Attached Images

18th July 2018, 01:16 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	*Tiger's tooth, anyone?* Hello Leif, You pretty much nailed it already! Your blade is genuine and most likely from the 19th century. It's a dagger type which hasn't been well documented and I believe we don't know its local name yet. Until we can ascertain a local name I have pegged this type as NN03 (NN for nomen nudum, i. e. without name) in my collection. Hilt and pommel can be quite variable with this rare blade type - a feature also seen with other blades from the central Sumatran highlands; some of them exhibit typical sekin pommels (the nose on your example seems to be a modern repair though as is the replaced scabbard). Antique scabbards seem to support an origin from the Padang highlands (most likely diffusing from there into Minang-influenced neighbouring regions). The single Lampung blade for which Michael obtained the name kuku rimau is quite different from these dagger-like blades with pronounced central rib. A tiger's claw is heavily curved and sharp at the tip and on the concave side - very much like the blades we know as korambi/kerambit/lawi ayam; this seems to correspond with contemporary Malay usage of this name, too. Thus, my preference to stay with NN03 for the time being... BTW, your blade is on the slender side for this type: What are its dimensions (length, thickness, width, weight)? Regards, Kai

18th July 2018, 12:01 PM	#3
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hello, that is an interessting dagger. The blade ist very corroded but the dress is fine. This makes me think, that the dress is much younger than the blade itself. The blade is clearly no Rencong/Rentjong, since the base ist totally different. I believe, this is a pretty old and nice Bugis Badek-blade from Sulawesi, 19th century or earlier, with a Rencong-based dress from 20th century. Roland

18th July 2018, 01:27 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,887	Dress is a substitution or replacement, blade is from a beladau, that in Jawa will be called a jambiyo. I have owned several of these but in correct dress.

18th July 2018, 02:00 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Seems we crossed posts, Alan! I believe this is a class of blades distinct from the coastal Melayu beladau: the latter tend to have blades with a broader base (approaching their Arab in-laws ). Usually beladau blades are also more strongly curved while the central Sumatran highland daggers NN03 tend to exhibit a slightly curved blade only; Leif's example shows the strongest curve I've seen so far (with most of the curve located at the base though). Regards, Kai

19th July 2018, 12:53 AM	#8
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	Kai, Do you have images of a correctly dressed example of NN03? Thanks, Leif