a recent montagnard dha i picked up

carlitobrigante · 29th August 2010, 10:23 PM

hi all, new to the forum. thought i might aswell share a recent dha i picked up from another collector. Only second dha sword ive had the pleasure to own, i believe it it a montagnard dha from laos or vietnam. Not sure the scabbard is as old as the sword itself. Blade shows a tempered / hardened edge. Hilt has brass (?) mounts inset with coloured stones, grip is lacquered rattan, and it has a heavy brass plug fitted as a pommel, likely to give it better balance?

anyway just thought id share as a hello to the forum

any further info on likely origin from the experts out there would be greatly appreciated.

Battara · 30th August 2010, 12:50 AM

Well that's really interesting, never saw turquoise and coral on a dha before.

Rick · 30th August 2010, 01:00 AM

Neither have I; and the pommel is way strange .

carlitobrigante · 30th August 2010, 03:12 PM

thanks for the comments guys. Yep i havent seen anything similar to this on my online travels, im still a novice though with these things. It seems a piece of nice quality to my newbie eyes. Any thoughts on whether scabbard original or not?

The brass plug is perplexing. Almost like they had finished making it, realised it didnt have correct balance so jammed this heavy brass plug in. I doubt its just for decoration. Maybe a replacement for the original pommel that was somehow lost?

Looks late 19th / early 20th cent to me, do you guys agree?

kronckew · 30th August 2010, 10:22 PM

the join between the blade and the grip seems oddly off centre in both the horizontal and vertical views, is this deliberate or has this been re-handled?

all my dhas have the blade and tang centrelines intersecting at the junction or overlapping, and the grip hole for receiving the tang is central as well, even if the blade and grip centrelines are at an angle.

the original posted one appears to have more blade below the central point than above, and in the spine view seems a bit more to the left of centre.

carlitobrigante · 31st August 2010, 01:29 AM

yep your right, the placement of the blade in the handle is off-centre, not as obvious as the photos make it look, not noticable in the hand till i looked close.

Theres some newer looking exopy in there as well, id say good chance blade came slightly loose and when re-seated and epoxyed it was done with blade dead centre.

So many unusual things on this dha. Theres quite a few very very small nicks along the length of the cutting edge, someone has given this one a fair bit of use aswell it seems.

Andrew · 1st September 2010, 06:19 AM

I believe this is a recently made (or cobbled-together) sword.

Although it is difficult to glean much from the photos, the blade appears to be well made and may be older than the handle, scabbard and baldric. However, it is a common style still manufactured in modern Aranyik, and I would estimate it to be no older than second half of the 20th century.

The "pommel" plug is something I've never seen before and, frankly, strikes me as a meaningless addition. Some previous owner did not like the look of the typical hole/concavity at the distal end of the handle, and decided it needed to be plugged. As Philip notes, it makes no sense whatsoever.

The handle is either a replacement, or has otherwise been altered. The stonework was either done to increase the item's "curb appeal", or a prior owner decorated it for his own pleasure. I have owned several daab and dha decorated with semi-precious stones (low-grade rubies and, in one case, peridots), but never the type seen here.

Finally, I would not really consider this to be a "Montagnard" sword. Could it have been made for or used by a member of that group of "hill tribes"? Certainly. However, this is a Thai blade, similar in style to the ubiquitous swords brought back with US servicemen from the Vietnam War, as mentioned by Philip.

Thank you for sharing this with us.

carlitobrigante · 1st September 2010, 04:07 PM

Thanks for the opinion chaps. Very unusual thing for sure, yep i agree looks like that brass plug was stuck in by a previous owner...you know what though i actually kinda like it, fits in well with the rest of the fittings

for the price i paid im very happy with it. im getting a little collection of dha going now, these things are addictive :-)

Andrew · 1st September 2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitobrigante

Thanks for the opinion chaps. Very unusual thing for sure, yep i agree looks like that brass plug was stuck in by a previous owner...you know what though i actually kinda like it, fits in well with the rest of the fittings

for the price i paid im very happy with it. im getting a little collection of dha going now, these things are addictive :-)

One of the best things about dha (for me, anyway) is, indeed, the variety of styles, decoration, quality and execution. We see genuine examples that range from crude to spectacular. Some of the most interesting dha I've handled have recycled blades with personalized and modified fittings.

Welcome to the "dhafia".

Tim Simmons · 1st September 2010, 07:13 PM

I want to take a step back from the cliff edge. I know we can all be a little trigger happy when we see something we have not seen before, bang bang what ever it is its dead now

. However the use of coral and turquoise is very common in areas bordering the lands that use dha. All along the Himalayas, Tibet , China. I believe this little box with enamels is from the Burma/China/Thai area. I am not trying to rock the boat or challenge oppinion, I just feel this might be to us an oddity that could well do with more research.

Tim Simmons · 1st September 2010, 08:21 PM

I would like to see much better clear pictures to start with. Close ups. This part looks gilded? Less subject to wear. Does the cut hole for the blade look bodgy? The parts do fit very well. Could they have been made for the handle? reminds me of my bicycle parts handle Dha? I bet this is 1940s.

29th August 2010, 10:23 PM	#1
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	a recent montagnard dha i picked up hi all, new to the forum. thought i might aswell share a recent dha i picked up from another collector. Only second dha sword ive had the pleasure to own, i believe it it a montagnard dha from laos or vietnam. Not sure the scabbard is as old as the sword itself. Blade shows a tempered / hardened edge. Hilt has brass (?) mounts inset with coloured stones, grip is lacquered rattan, and it has a heavy brass plug fitted as a pommel, likely to give it better balance? anyway just thought id share as a hello to the forum any further info on likely origin from the experts out there would be greatly appreciated. Last edited by carlitobrigante; 29th August 2010 at 11:01 PM.

1st September 2010, 07:13 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I want to take a step back from the cliff edge. I know we can all be a little trigger happy when we see something we have not seen before, bang bang what ever it is its dead now . However the use of coral and turquoise is very common in areas bordering the lands that use dha. All along the Himalayas, Tibet , China. I believe this little box with enamels is from the Burma/China/Thai area. I am not trying to rock the boat or challenge oppinion, I just feel this might be to us an oddity that could well do with more research. Attached Images

1st September 2010, 08:21 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I would like to see much better clear pictures to start with. Close ups. This part looks gilded? Less subject to wear. Does the cut hole for the blade look bodgy? The parts do fit very well. Could they have been made for the handle? reminds me of my bicycle parts handle Dha? I bet this is 1940s. Attached Images

30th August 2010, 12:50 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Well that's really interesting, never saw turquoise and coral on a dha before.

30th August 2010, 01:00 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Neither have I; and the pommel is way strange .

30th August 2010, 03:12 PM	#4
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	thanks for the comments guys. Yep i havent seen anything similar to this on my online travels, im still a novice though with these things. It seems a piece of nice quality to my newbie eyes. Any thoughts on whether scabbard original or not? The brass plug is perplexing. Almost like they had finished making it, realised it didnt have correct balance so jammed this heavy brass plug in. I doubt its just for decoration. Maybe a replacement for the original pommel that was somehow lost? Looks late 19th / early 20th cent to me, do you guys agree?

30th August 2010, 10:22 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	the join between the blade and the grip seems oddly off centre in both the horizontal and vertical views, is this deliberate or has this been re-handled? all my dhas have the blade and tang centrelines intersecting at the junction or overlapping, and the grip hole for receiving the tang is central as well, even if the blade and grip centrelines are at an angle. the original posted one appears to have more blade below the central point than above, and in the spine view seems a bit more to the left of centre.

31st August 2010, 01:29 AM	#6
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	yep your right, the placement of the blade in the handle is off-centre, not as obvious as the photos make it look, not noticable in the hand till i looked close. Theres some newer looking exopy in there as well, id say good chance blade came slightly loose and when re-seated and epoxyed it was done with blade dead centre. So many unusual things on this dha. Theres quite a few very very small nicks along the length of the cutting edge, someone has given this one a fair bit of use aswell it seems.

1st September 2010, 06:19 AM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I believe this is a recently made (or cobbled-together) sword. Although it is difficult to glean much from the photos, the blade appears to be well made and may be older than the handle, scabbard and baldric. However, it is a common style still manufactured in modern Aranyik, and I would estimate it to be no older than second half of the 20th century. The "pommel" plug is something I've never seen before and, frankly, strikes me as a meaningless addition. Some previous owner did not like the look of the typical hole/concavity at the distal end of the handle, and decided it needed to be plugged. As Philip notes, it makes no sense whatsoever. The handle is either a replacement, or has otherwise been altered. The stonework was either done to increase the item's "curb appeal", or a prior owner decorated it for his own pleasure. I have owned several daab and dha decorated with semi-precious stones (low-grade rubies and, in one case, peridots), but never the type seen here. Finally, I would not really consider this to be a "Montagnard" sword. Could it have been made for or used by a member of that group of "hill tribes"? Certainly. However, this is a Thai blade, similar in style to the ubiquitous swords brought back with US servicemen from the Vietnam War, as mentioned by Philip. Thank you for sharing this with us.

1st September 2010, 04:07 PM	#8
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	Thanks for the opinion chaps. Very unusual thing for sure, yep i agree looks like that brass plug was stuck in by a previous owner...you know what though i actually kinda like it, fits in well with the rest of the fittings for the price i paid im very happy with it. im getting a little collection of dha going now, these things are addictive :-)