Help Identify - Indonesia?

DaveA · 19th August 2017, 09:46 PM

Hello,

I recently picked up this knife at auction. The hilt makes me think of an origin in Indonesia, but the blade I do not recognize. The knife is well made, balanced, blade firm with no play.

Description:

- OAL = 10 3/8 inches
- Blade length = 4 5/8 inches, the first 1 5/8 inches are unsharpened false edge
- Blade thickness = 3/8 inches, tapering to 1/8 inch
- Blade Top is straight
- Blade edge has a broad sharpened bevel grind on one side only, the other side flat.
- Blade cross section is flat.
- Blade width broadens from 5/8 inch at hilt to 1 inch at the end of a false edge, then narrowing as it sweeps upward to the tip. This false edge is chisel grind (both sides)
- Bolster is brass in one piece roughly matching cross section of the hilt and with two raised ring portions nearest the hilt.
- Hilt length is 5 3/4
- Hilt cross section is a flattened oval with edge along bottom aligned with the blade and rounded on top
- Hilt material is dark hardwood with slight greenish hue
- Hilt design motif is floral with carved portion 3 inches long and 1 1/2 inches wide at the wides portion.

Your thoughts please?

Best Regards,

Dave A.

Sajen · 19th August 2017, 10:21 PM

Hello Dave,

it was very long on my watch list (

) and like you I think it's from Indonesia or maybe Malaysia but I can't name it and also don't know from where it is exactly. But I know that I like it! Sorry that I can't be from better help. But I think that the hilt isn't from wood but from horn, I am nearly sure.

Regards,
Detlef

DaveA · 19th August 2017, 10:34 PM

Thanks. Malaysia is an interesting thought.

The hilt might be horn. That was my first thought. It doesn't seem to have the right grain when I look at it under magnification. I have not cleaned this item yet so perhaps there are more clues lurking beneath the dirt.

- Dave A.

kai · 19th August 2017, 11:15 PM

Hello Dave,

This might be a woodworkers tool (artisanal carving knife, possibly doubling as an EDC).

As suggested, it possibly may be Malay (including the coastal communities of Sumatra and neighbouring islands).

I'm also inclined to believe the hilt is from kerbau horn.

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 20th August 2017, 04:00 AM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...o+womens+knife

A. G. Maisey · 20th August 2017, 04:29 AM

This blade style is widespread in SE Asia, the chisel edge permits a very sharp edge when correctly sharpened. Ideal for splitting rotan and similar materials. M'ranggis use this type of knife for general purpose work, I have several that I use for bench work.

The area of origin is probably going to be determined by the hilt:- ID hilt style, ID knife.

In Bali today these knives are called temutik.

My guess for this one would be Lombok. It is a guess.

Various sizes, ages, qualities:-

DaveA · 20th August 2017, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Dave,

This might be a woodworkers tool (artisanal carving knife, possibly doubling as an EDC).

As suggested, it possibly may be Malay (including the coastal communities of Sumatra and neighbouring islands).

I'm also inclined to believe the hilt is from kerbau horn.

Regards,
Kai

After cleaning and looking more closely at this an other examples, I now agree it is horn. The greenish color I have not seen in water buffalo horn before, nor is this example as dark black as others. I suppose this is just natural variation.

DaveA · 20th August 2017, 10:34 PM

On further thought, I'm not yet convinced about the identification of this knife as pemutik/temutik.

I cannot find a pemutik example with a similar hilt that curves upward and away from the sharpened edge as this one does. Also, this hilt cross section does not match the typical symmetrical elongated barrel shape either.

Would you call this floral hilt design puntung? It is much more elaborate than other examples I can find on the forum or elsewhere on any knife.

- Dave A.

19th August 2017, 09:46 PM	#1
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Help Identify - Indonesia? Hello, I recently picked up this knife at auction. The hilt makes me think of an origin in Indonesia, but the blade I do not recognize. The knife is well made, balanced, blade firm with no play. Description: - OAL = 10 3/8 inches - Blade length = 4 5/8 inches, the first 1 5/8 inches are unsharpened false edge - Blade thickness = 3/8 inches, tapering to 1/8 inch - Blade Top is straight - Blade edge has a broad sharpened bevel grind on one side only, the other side flat. - Blade cross section is flat. - Blade width broadens from 5/8 inch at hilt to 1 inch at the end of a false edge, then narrowing as it sweeps upward to the tip. This false edge is chisel grind (both sides) - Bolster is brass in one piece roughly matching cross section of the hilt and with two raised ring portions nearest the hilt. - Hilt length is 5 3/4 - Hilt cross section is a flattened oval with edge along bottom aligned with the blade and rounded on top - Hilt material is dark hardwood with slight greenish hue - Hilt design motif is floral with carved portion 3 inches long and 1 1/2 inches wide at the wides portion. Your thoughts please? Best Regards, Dave A. Attached Images

19th August 2017, 10:34 PM	#3
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	hilt material Thanks. Malaysia is an interesting thought. The hilt might be horn. That was my first thought. It doesn't seem to have the right grain when I look at it under magnification. I have not cleaned this item yet so perhaps there are more clues lurking beneath the dirt. - Dave A.

20th August 2017, 04:00 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Kind of Like? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...o+womens+knife

20th August 2017, 04:29 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	This blade style is widespread in SE Asia, the chisel edge permits a very sharp edge when correctly sharpened. Ideal for splitting rotan and similar materials. M'ranggis use this type of knife for general purpose work, I have several that I use for bench work. The area of origin is probably going to be determined by the hilt:- ID hilt style, ID knife. In Bali today these knives are called temutik. My guess for this one would be Lombok. It is a guess. Various sizes, ages, qualities:- Attached Images Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 20th August 2017 at 08:16 AM.

20th August 2017, 10:34 PM	#8
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Hilt curves up On further thought, I'm not yet convinced about the identification of this knife as pemutik/temutik. I cannot find a pemutik example with a similar hilt that curves upward and away from the sharpened edge as this one does. Also, this hilt cross section does not match the typical symmetrical elongated barrel shape either. Would you call this floral hilt design puntung? It is much more elaborate than other examples I can find on the forum or elsewhere on any knife. - Dave A.

19th August 2017, 10:21 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Dave, it was very long on my watch list ( ) and like you I think it's from Indonesia or maybe Malaysia but I can't name it and also don't know from where it is exactly. But I know that I like it! Sorry that I can't be from better help. But I think that the hilt isn't from wood but from horn, I am nearly sure. Regards, Detlef

19th August 2017, 11:15 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Dave, This might be a woodworkers tool (artisanal carving knife, possibly doubling as an EDC). As suggested, it possibly may be Malay (including the coastal communities of Sumatra and neighbouring islands). I'm also inclined to believe the hilt is from kerbau horn. Regards, Kai