Persian-Iranian 17th C Lance Point?

celtan · 23rd January 2011, 05:06 PM

Hi, I recently acquired a reportedly 17th C Persian-Iranian Lance Point, but frankly, I have no idea if this is truly the case. Also, I can't read the inscriptions, if that's what the artwork is. Is this koftgari or true damascene?

Comments from the cognoscentii ?

Best regards

Manuel Luis

ALEX · 24th January 2011, 11:37 AM

This is Persian indeed. 19th Century, not 17th. There are no inscriptions/writing on it. The gold on base of the blade and shaft is applied with coftgari technique. The blade may be wootz, I'd clean and test-etch it.

celtan · 24th January 2011, 09:56 PM

Hi Alex,

Gold?

You mean brass/laiton/laton don't you?

I have cleaned the metal. no oils remain.
Do you mean to polish the metal until no nremain?
How would you etch the metal to bring out the wootz pattern? Teodor (TVV) suggests the following:

"you wash the blade and rub it with alcohol to make sure it is as clean as it can get, and then you dip it in some acidic solution. I prefer diluted vinegar: 1 part vinegar to 4 parts warm water. Then take out of the solution as soon as you are satisfied with the resulting pattern (assuming there is a pattern - keep in mind that sometimes the blade is plain steel and therefore there would be no pattern), wash with soap and dry thoroughly".

Haven't had time to do it, though.

BTW, who wore this type of weapon?

Best

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

This is Persian indeed. 19th Century, not 17th. There are no inscriptions/writing on it. The gold on base of the blade and shaft is applied with coftgari technique. The blade may be wootz, I'd clean and test-etch it.

ALEX · 25th January 2011, 11:51 AM

Gold inlay is typical on these spears. Could be brass as well, but most likely, and I do think it is gold inlay. Please do not quit your job yet:-) the coftrari technique uses thin gold wire and requires very little of it, it's only a few grams.
Do not polish/clean the shaft! Clean only the blade, slightly, just to allow good contact between solution and metal . Do not touch the inlaid areas, and do not let any acid touch them, as it'll ruin the gold! Teodor's recommendation is good. Submerge the blade, or portion of it, in the solution until the metal becomes dark(er). You may also use any acid, like real lemon juice. If it is wootz - you'll see the pattern. If plain steel - the area will remain evenly dark shaded. Something tells me you'll see the pattern:-) Good luck, and let us know the result.
This is classical Persian, late Qajar (mid-late 19th Century) spear. They are well forged, were mounted on long (2 meters+) wooden poles and in addition to stabbing spears were used as "Alam" i.e. standard during parades and processions.

23rd January 2011, 05:06 PM	#1
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Persian-Iranian 17th C Lance Point? Hi, I recently acquired a reportedly 17th C Persian-Iranian Lance Point, but frankly, I have no idea if this is truly the case. Also, I can't read the inscriptions, if that's what the artwork is. Is this koftgari or true damascene? Comments from the cognoscentii ? Best regards Manuel Luis Attached Images

24th January 2011, 11:37 AM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	This is Persian indeed. 19th Century, not 17th. There are no inscriptions/writing on it. The gold on base of the blade and shaft is applied with coftgari technique. The blade may be wootz, I'd clean and test-etch it.

25th January 2011, 11:51 AM	#4
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Gold inlay is typical on these spears. Could be brass as well, but most likely, and I do think it is gold inlay. Please do not quit your job yet:-) the coftrari technique uses thin gold wire and requires very little of it, it's only a few grams. Do not polish/clean the shaft! Clean only the blade, slightly, just to allow good contact between solution and metal . Do not touch the inlaid areas, and do not let any acid touch them, as it'll ruin the gold! Teodor's recommendation is good. Submerge the blade, or portion of it, in the solution until the metal becomes dark(er). You may also use any acid, like real lemon juice. If it is wootz - you'll see the pattern. If plain steel - the area will remain evenly dark shaded. Something tells me you'll see the pattern:-) Good luck, and let us know the result. This is classical Persian, late Qajar (mid-late 19th Century) spear. They are well forged, were mounted on long (2 meters+) wooden poles and in addition to stabbing spears were used as "Alam" i.e. standard during parades and processions.