"Elephant" Keris

[Bill M]

I am dispensing with Javanese terms about keris privacy. I think that my blades are to be used for discussion. I acquired them because I like them. I have no illusions about my knowledge or lack of knowledge as to technical details and invite your discussion.

I am a collector. I do not sell, nor have any intent to sell, nor to explain my source. These keris are stored away in a vault for the past few years with temperature and humidity controlled. If you want to see more pictures, it may take a while to dig through my files.

So here is one of my favorites and am using a name that comes to my mind. The Elephant. I invite your comments. Thank you, Bill

[David]

Originally Posted by Bill M

...I acquired them because I like them. I have no illusions about my knowledge or lack of knowledge as to technical details and invite your discussion.
So here is one of my favorites and am using a name that comes to my mind. The Elephant. I invite your comments. Thank you, Bill

I understand that you do not feel knowledgeable enough to comment further on your keris in terms of technical details, but perhaps you could expand upon why this is one of your favorite keris.
I also have a keris in my collection that has a winged, crowned elephant motif at the base of the blade as does yours. It is a contemporary blade as i believe yours is as well. I have never photographed this blade and it is currently in storage so i probably won't be showing it anytime soon, but i have seen this motif many times. It might be interesting to aim at least part of this discussion at the symbolism behind this creature.

[Jean]

Hello Bill,
The winged elephant motif on the sorsoran is normally part of the dapur Lar Monga with 3 waves, or Liman Lar with 11 waves, not 13 as your blade.
I can understand why you like this blade because the design and workmanship are quite spectacular, what puzzles me is that the style of the elephant head is different on each side?
As said by David, I think that it is probably a recent creation, normally the blade is not carved through like yours, see a more traditional blade with dapur Lar Monga/ Urubing Dilah.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

The winged elephant motif on the sorsoran is normally part of the dapur Lar Monga with 3 waves, or Liman Lar with 11 waves, not 13 as your blade.
I can understand why you like this blade because the design and workmanship are quite spectacular, what puzzles me is that the style of the elephant head is different on each side?

Jean, i believe that Bill is actually showing us two completely different keris in his post. The style is not different on each side. These are not the same blade.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Jean, i believe that Bill is actually showing us two completely different keris in his post. The style is not different on each side. These are not the same blade.

Ouch, confusing indeed, thanks!

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

I think that it is probably a recent creation, normally the blade is not carved through like yours, see a more traditional blade with dapur Lar Monga/ Urubing Dilah.

Most of the examples i have seen of winged elephants carved on blades are rather recent. Is your example an older one. The new examples i have seen do not seem to adhere to any rules of number of luks. I have seen this motif carved on everything from a straight (lurus) blade to 13 luk blades like Bill's and everything in between.
Are you aware of what the significance of the number of luks in the tradition form you speak of means or what place or meaning this particular winged elephant motif might serve?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Most of the examples i have seen of winged elephants carved on blades are rather recent. Is your example an older one. The new examples i have seen do not seem to adhere to any rules of number of luks. I have seen this motif carved on everything from a straight (lurus) blade to 13 luk blades like Bill's and everything in between.
Are you aware of what the significance of the number of luks in the tradition form you speak of means or what place or meaning this particular winged elephant motif might serve?

Hello David,
My specimen seems to have some age and the elephant head not carved more recently but I can't guarantee it.
The 2 dapur types which I have mentioned with this winged elephant motif are recognized ones (Mangar Mongla with 3 luk by Haryoguritno and the reference book Dhapur, and Liman Lar with 11 luk in the EK). However I don't know whether the number of luks of the blades with this motif has any significance or not.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

However I don't know whether the number of luks of the blades with this motif has any significance or not.

Well, i would image that the number of luks generally carried some significance and that significance probably varies dependent upon the time period of the blade's origin. I have just never seen any of these laid out for any given era in any convincing manner. But why choose a particular number of luk for your keris if the number has no significance.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by David

I understand that you do not feel knowledgeable enough to comment further on your keris in terms of technical details, but perhaps you could expand upon why this is one of your favorite keris.

David, I just like the elephant and how the trunk comes into play. I do believe it is more recent, but the carving is very nice. Amazing work.

I think I will dig out both of these and bring further pictures.

I find something that I like and it grabs me. Why? dunno. But I want it.

I was in a hurry and added in the second elephant keris not meaning to do so, nor to confused.