new member, old keris

PeterP · 18th October 2013, 11:02 PM

First of all, thanks for allowing me to join this forum. Let me introduce myself first. My name is Peter Paul, and live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. I'm an art historian who turned away from art, and now work as a props manager for the dutch national opera. The props department i work for not only makes and buys the props for our productions, we also manage the weapons room. We ocasionally buy, make and modify weapons for the productions. As such, once in a while I come across a piece which we don't need for one of our opera's, but which i personally like, and buy it for myself. A few of these are kerisses, and I would like to post a few of these to learn more about them. I will post them in seperate threads so things won't get mixed up.
The first one I actually bought when I was still in my teens (way back in the early seventies), and this is also my favorite. I really like this one. Maybe because of the easy flow of the waves, or the beautifully rendered elephants head. Also the metal of this keris seems different from the other ones I have. It feels smoother, and has a soft shine which the other ones don't have, they feel courser and more prickly. Also the colour of the metal is different. It hasn't seen any arsenic and lime for ages, so it has a soft brownish patine, but through which the pamor is still visible.
Well,I'll post some images and hope some of the members could pass judgement on this keris, and I hope somebody can tell me more about it's origins, age perhaps ( although I know this is very difficult to judge from o picture), pamor type and more.

Sajen · 19th October 2013, 01:36 AM

Hallo Peter,

it's late already in Germany but this blade you have there is one of the most interesting blades I have seen here for a long time. I need to look longer to your blade to tell you more as I can do for the moment. Pamor is wos wutah. Difficult to count the luks, five would say the most but could be seven also. And it is a Java blade. Do you have a scabbard? How long is the blade? It is not a new blade for sure but it is very good preserved.
I am sure that Alan will be able to tell you much more about your blade.

Regards,

Detlef

Rick · 19th October 2013, 03:23 AM

You are not alone in finding this blade interesting, Detlef .

A. G. Maisey · 19th October 2013, 08:30 AM

Thanks for your vote of confidence Detlef, but I'm afraid that Alan cannot say much about this blade at all.

Using the current convention of count I'd be inclined to give this as 5 luk, not 7; however, that said, this blade does demonstrate very clearly my proposition that the current convention of count adds 2 non-existent luk to the count.

I am not inclined to try to give this blade a classification in accordance with the tangguh system, but I would draw your attention to the very stiff gonjo, lack of erosion at the fine points of the ricikan and the form of the ron dha.

Place of origin is probably East Jawa.

Jean · 19th October 2013, 10:21 AM

This blade has a very peculiar dapur without pejetan especially.
Looking at the 4th picture from the top, it seems that the metal on the elephant head has a different colour from the base and no pamor lines as if if it had been patched later? Or am I overly suspicious?

Regards

A. G. Maisey · 19th October 2013, 11:43 AM

It could be an addition Jean, but I think it is more likely to be original, probably an outer skin used during the manufacturing process.

18th October 2013, 11:02 PM	#1
PeterP Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 15	new member, old keris First of all, thanks for allowing me to join this forum. Let me introduce myself first. My name is Peter Paul, and live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. I'm an art historian who turned away from art, and now work as a props manager for the dutch national opera. The props department i work for not only makes and buys the props for our productions, we also manage the weapons room. We ocasionally buy, make and modify weapons for the productions. As such, once in a while I come across a piece which we don't need for one of our opera's, but which i personally like, and buy it for myself. A few of these are kerisses, and I would like to post a few of these to learn more about them. I will post them in seperate threads so things won't get mixed up. The first one I actually bought when I was still in my teens (way back in the early seventies), and this is also my favorite. I really like this one. Maybe because of the easy flow of the waves, or the beautifully rendered elephants head. Also the metal of this keris seems different from the other ones I have. It feels smoother, and has a soft shine which the other ones don't have, they feel courser and more prickly. Also the colour of the metal is different. It hasn't seen any arsenic and lime for ages, so it has a soft brownish patine, but through which the pamor is still visible. Well,I'll post some images and hope some of the members could pass judgement on this keris, and I hope somebody can tell me more about it's origins, age perhaps ( although I know this is very difficult to judge from o picture), pamor type and more. Attached Images

19th October 2013, 10:21 AM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	This blade has a very peculiar dapur without pejetan especially. Looking at the 4th picture from the top, it seems that the metal on the elephant head has a different colour from the base and no pamor lines as if if it had been patched later? Or am I overly suspicious? Regards Last edited by Jean; 19th October 2013 at 10:56 AM.

19th October 2013, 01:36 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Hallo Peter, it's late already in Germany but this blade you have there is one of the most interesting blades I have seen here for a long time. I need to look longer to your blade to tell you more as I can do for the moment. Pamor is wos wutah. Difficult to count the luks, five would say the most but could be seven also. And it is a Java blade. Do you have a scabbard? How long is the blade? It is not a new blade for sure but it is very good preserved. I am sure that Alan will be able to tell you much more about your blade. Regards, Detlef

19th October 2013, 03:23 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	You are not alone in finding this blade interesting, Detlef .

19th October 2013, 08:30 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Thanks for your vote of confidence Detlef, but I'm afraid that Alan cannot say much about this blade at all. Using the current convention of count I'd be inclined to give this as 5 luk, not 7; however, that said, this blade does demonstrate very clearly my proposition that the current convention of count adds 2 non-existent luk to the count. I am not inclined to try to give this blade a classification in accordance with the tangguh system, but I would draw your attention to the very stiff gonjo, lack of erosion at the fine points of the ricikan and the form of the ron dha. Place of origin is probably East Jawa.

19th October 2013, 11:43 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	It could be an addition Jean, but I think it is more likely to be original, probably an outer skin used during the manufacturing process.