a strange hulu detail

Michel · 6th December 2009, 09:35 AM

Ever seen such a small "ad on" a Jogakarta kriss handle ?
Why , What for ?
Thanks for any information
Regards
Michel

Marcokeris · 6th December 2009, 01:49 PM

I have never seen before one like your hit Michel.
IMO nice hit (and ladrang too)

Sajen · 6th December 2009, 02:02 PM

Hello Michel,

I have seen this some time ago in e-bay, someone sold some keris with such hilts and small stones set in the warangka; your keris is maybe from this origin?
I think that this isn't original, I see on your pictures that the "knob" is glued.

Regards,

Detlef

Michel · 6th December 2009, 04:10 PM

Yes Detlef, the piece is glued.
I however doubt the kriss is coming from Ebay as the owner does not utilize Ebay (He is a well known kriss collector with an extensive knowledge on the kriss and the Indonesian culture)
He has not told me where from he got it. He had also not seen such a knob on any kriss.
He unfortunately does not come on the forum as his knowledge would help us a lot but agreed that I ask the question.
May be someone of the forum knows something about this curious knob, tis reason and origin ?
Although a well carved hulu, the gluing is not perfect. To my eyes it is a modern hulu with an added knob. But Why ? What are the reasons that were behind such a strange ad on ?
It cannot be aesthetic, nor functional, what could justify it ?
I am at lost !
Hey, could it be a simple marketing gimmick ? just like the stone or gold piece on the warangka ?
Regards
Michel

Sajen · 6th December 2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel

Yes Detlef, the piece is glued.

Hey, could it be a simple marketing gimmick ? just like the stone or gold piece on the warangka ?
Regards
Michel

Hello Michel,

I think like this, since I never have seen something like this original, but this is only my guess.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 6th December 2009, 10:49 PM

In Surakarta there used to be a very famous art connoisseur, who has now left this world.

He had guided many fellow Indonesians with his knowledge and was known internationally. He had connections at the very highest level of Indonesian society, and almost invariably, when any officially sanctioned endeavour in the field of Indonesian art occurred, this man was involved.He was particularly well known in the field of keris.

There is no doubt that this man had immense knowledge, and his knowledge of the keris was absolutely first class.

He was constantly on the lookout for high quality and unusual keris, and he maintained links, mostly through agents, with many keris dealers in Central Jawa and beyond.

He was very, very well known in the keris trade, and people were constantly striving to create new designs he had not seen, and variations of design that he had not previously encountered. He was very well known within a segment of the keris trade as being always able to be deceived by something that he had not previously seen.Because of this a few people worked continually on producing keris and keris related items specifically for feeding to this extremely knowledgeable and well known connoisseur with an international reputation. Mostly their forgeries and other deceptions were successful.

Centini wrote 200 years ago that if you want to learn about keris you must go to the market place.

Nothing has changed since then.

There is one basic rule that should come before all others in identifying that which is genuine and that which is false in the world of the keris:-

recognise quality.

This will not invariably protect you, but at the level of the market where most people who collect in the western world buy, it is a very, very good rule to live by.

Quality does not necessarily equate to expensive, but it invariably equates to artistic sensibility.

In this hilt under discussion, can anybody see any artistic sensibility in a lump of wood with a coarse grain running the wrong way glued to a reasonably well carved hilt?

6th December 2009, 09:35 AM	#1
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	a strange hulu detail Ever seen such a small "ad on" a Jogakarta kriss handle ? Why , What for ? Thanks for any information Regards Michel Attached Images

6th December 2009, 04:10 PM	#4
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	Glued knob Yes Detlef, the piece is glued. I however doubt the kriss is coming from Ebay as the owner does not utilize Ebay (He is a well known kriss collector with an extensive knowledge on the kriss and the Indonesian culture) He has not told me where from he got it. He had also not seen such a knob on any kriss. He unfortunately does not come on the forum as his knowledge would help us a lot but agreed that I ask the question. May be someone of the forum knows something about this curious knob, tis reason and origin ? Although a well carved hulu, the gluing is not perfect. To my eyes it is a modern hulu with an added knob. But Why ? What are the reasons that were behind such a strange ad on ? It cannot be aesthetic, nor functional, what could justify it ? I am at lost ! Hey, could it be a simple marketing gimmick ? just like the stone or gold piece on the warangka ? Regards Michel

6th December 2009, 01:49 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I have never seen before one like your hit Michel. IMO nice hit (and ladrang too)

6th December 2009, 02:02 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Hello Michel, I have seen this some time ago in e-bay, someone sold some keris with such hilts and small stones set in the warangka; your keris is maybe from this origin? I think that this isn't original, I see on your pictures that the "knob" is glued. Regards, Detlef

6th December 2009, 10:49 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	In Surakarta there used to be a very famous art connoisseur, who has now left this world. He had guided many fellow Indonesians with his knowledge and was known internationally. He had connections at the very highest level of Indonesian society, and almost invariably, when any officially sanctioned endeavour in the field of Indonesian art occurred, this man was involved.He was particularly well known in the field of keris. There is no doubt that this man had immense knowledge, and his knowledge of the keris was absolutely first class. He was constantly on the lookout for high quality and unusual keris, and he maintained links, mostly through agents, with many keris dealers in Central Jawa and beyond. He was very, very well known in the keris trade, and people were constantly striving to create new designs he had not seen, and variations of design that he had not previously encountered. He was very well known within a segment of the keris trade as being always able to be deceived by something that he had not previously seen.Because of this a few people worked continually on producing keris and keris related items specifically for feeding to this extremely knowledgeable and well known connoisseur with an international reputation. Mostly their forgeries and other deceptions were successful. Centini wrote 200 years ago that if you want to learn about keris you must go to the market place. Nothing has changed since then. There is one basic rule that should come before all others in identifying that which is genuine and that which is false in the world of the keris:- recognise quality. This will not invariably protect you, but at the level of the market where most people who collect in the western world buy, it is a very, very good rule to live by. Quality does not necessarily equate to expensive, but it invariably equates to artistic sensibility. In this hilt under discussion, can anybody see any artistic sensibility in a lump of wood with a coarse grain running the wrong way glued to a reasonably well carved hilt?