Another strange, non-textbook, parang

VVV · 17th December 2005, 03:13 PM

Thanks all who participated in the other thread on the Aceh/Batak Klewang that's "unfortunately" on its way to a non-forum member in France.

I hope you also could be interested to discuss this tricky parang?
I haven't either found this one in any reference works.
My guess is either Borneo (Murut, Melanau) or Sumatra?
Or could it be Moro (the handle has some resemblence to a Barong)?
Look forward to all input to help me trace its origin.

Thanks,

Michael

Lew · 17th December 2005, 03:36 PM

My vote is Moro some form of bangkung?

Lew

Rick · 17th December 2005, 03:41 PM

Here's another for some form of Bangkung .

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2005, 06:35 PM

Here is another strange one. I did show it on the old forum and Tom very kindly suggested that the scabbard had some Morro aspects. As you can see it is from around ww2 or latter. I would imagine it is probably from Borneo as the UK did not get that involved with the PI but things and people move around, N Borneo and PI only seperated by islands in the Sulu sea. Tim

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2005, 07:31 PM

The decoration at the ends of both Michaels and my knife seem to share the same form. The decoration on my prang being a little more stylised. Tim

zelbone · 17th December 2005, 07:38 PM

Looks more like a Janap to me.

VVV · 17th December 2005, 08:48 PM

Thanks for the feedback!
Moro weapons are rare here in North Europe so the only Bangkungs I have seen are those in Cato's book with another kind of blade.
But I always wanted a Bangkung in my collection so...
What puzzles me a bit is the way the belt rope is attached to the scabbard.
I haven't seen that with f.i. Barongs?
It reminds me more of a Pakayun scabbard or other parangs I have seen in NW Borneo?

Nice parang Tim.
Interesting that the wood on your handle is also striped like the wood on my scabbard.

Zelbone, what's a Janap (except that it looks like my and Tim's blade)?

Michael

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2005, 08:59 PM

How right you are, now you point it out, the wood is the same. I have another knife with a handle of the same wood, which I also suspect is from Borneo. I did show it many years ago but the response was a little poor. I think there are too many similarities in these knives, not to have come from the same place. Tim

kai · 17th December 2005, 11:17 PM

I can see a vague similarity with a barong hilt but I have severe problems to believe that a traditional moro craftsman would butcher the kakatua pommel design in such a way. In my eyes this hilt could be based on the barong kakatua but I feel this was done by an outsider who didn't grasp (or didn't cared about) the underlying symbolism and went off in another direction. Areas close to Tausug territory (especially N or E Borneo) might be likely places for its origin IMVHO.

Regards,
Kai

Tim Simmons · 18th December 2005, 08:42 AM

I am pretty sure the parang that I post is from N Borneo and made by an outsider could just be cultural diffusion. I do not know about Michael's unless you include that one too. It would seem that the striped wood is widespread. Tim

VVV · 18th December 2005, 09:53 AM

Good morning Tim,

I think your first parang could be from Sabah.
When I was at the Kota Belud market I remember seeing newly made parangs with hilts and scabbards resembling yours.
I had a look at one I bought for my son and the part on the scabbard where the belt rope is inserted is identical to yours.
It's also probable that a parang from Sabah (former British Borneo) ends up in UK.
Maybe John (from KK) can confirm this?

Michael

John · 18th December 2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Good morning Tim,

I think your first parang could be from Sabah.
When I was at the Kota Belud market I remember seeing newly made parangs with hilts and scabbards resembling yours.
I had a look at one I bought for my son and the part on the scabbard where the belt rope is inserted is identical to yours.
It's also probable that a parang from Sabah (former British Borneo) ends up in UK.
Maybe John (from KK) can confirm this?

Michael

Michael,

I think the pictures from the following site may bring back some memories of the Kota Belud Tamu (Sunday market). Perhaps Tim could compare his parangs with some of those in my pictures... There seem to be resemblances but the curious thing is that the hilts wood on Tim's pieces appears to look like kemuning (or a similar grained wood) have not been something I've seen in recent times (within the limits of my exposure). So I can't be certain whether his are from Sabah...

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

RobT · 19th December 2005, 12:41 AM

Hi all,
Perhaps the scabbard details of my blade will aid in assigning location. I have been torn between the Philippines and Indonesia but I think the Philippines is more likely.
Sincerely,
RobT

Tim Simmons · 19th December 2005, 09:09 AM

Hello RobT,

I wish I could be more helpful but we just got lucky with a picture of Micheal's Semelai finished parang. Your knife is very much like the one that started the thread. Tim

zelbone · 19th December 2005, 03:12 PM

I still think that both Michael's and RobT's swords are utak janaps which are Moro tools/weapons. A bangkung would have a straighter spine much like a lumad kampilan or a binangon. The janap has also a more squared off tip. Basically, it's more of a utilitarian bolo, but as seen with other bolos across the Philippines they can be used as weapons. The two examples posted here are fancier than more typical janaps meaning these were intended to be used as weapons. The scabbards look like mid 20th C. sulu design and the hilts also have the hybrid kakatua/horsehoof or nay kuray pommel (I believe that's the term...my reference book on this is being borrowed by the guy that won the ivory pommel barung the other day.) If I had to take a guess, I suspect these are from Sulu or Basilan. Hope this helps

.

kai · 19th December 2005, 07:39 PM

Thanks, Zel!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelbone

I still think that both Michael's and RobT's swords are utak janaps which are Moro tools/weapons.

Do you have any pics of this pommel type and the tool version of an utak janap?

Quote:

the hilts also have the hybrid kakatua/horsehoof or nay kuray pommel (I believe that's the term...my reference book on this is being borrowed

What's the citation for this book?

Regards,
Kai

zelbone · 20th December 2005, 06:49 AM

Guys,
The book I have is a collection of journal articles written about the history and arts in Sulu. I don't have the book on hand right now since I loaned it out to a fellow collector, but I believe the title is Sulu Studies. In one chapter they do describe the utak janap and it's intended use and there might be an illustration. The copy I have is relatively recent and should be available....and it's in English. Sorry I don't have the ISBN number which would make locating a copy easier. You might want to search on the old forum because I believe I actually wrote about that book and gave all the pertinent information of finding it. Actually, there's some very valuable information in that book that any collector of Sulu weapons would find very useful. Like I said, I don't have the book right now, otherwise I'd have the information for all of you. As for a tool version of an utak janap, I saw one last year at Cecil Quirino's house when a few of us collectors here paid him a visit. It was pretty plain, but had a similar hilt. I should have bought it!

Regards,

Zel

Tim Simmons · 20th December 2005, 07:27 AM

What!!!!! You lend your books

zamboanga · 29th December 2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelbone

Guys,
The book I have is a collection of journal articles written about the history and arts in Sulu. I don't have the book on hand right now since I loaned it out to a fellow collector, but I believe the title is Sulu Studies...

Regards,

Zel

zel,

Are you talking about the book or books by former priest Gerard Rixzon? I don't think it has an ISBN number. In fact most books printed locally that deal with Jolo culture and history (Rasul, Bruno, etc.) don't have ISBN numbers.

Also, the janap is also mentioned in this link as a "primitive trowel": http://kyotoreview.cseas.kyoto-u.ac....ticle_341.html

carlo

Tim Simmons · 19th December 2005, 06:31 PM

If this works, there is a little interesting background and information on the fate of Major Williams-Hunt

No I cannot get the link to work.

Use google enter Major P.D.R. Williams-Hunt, the first site should be, The Aboriginal Factor, worth a look. Tm

kai · 19th December 2005, 07:19 PM

http://askari_mb.tripod.com/id84.htm

VVV · 19th December 2005, 07:21 PM

Thanks Zel and Tim,

Zel, is there any reference picture of an utak janap in your reference book?
What's the name of the book and is it in Tagalog?

Tim, interesting link. Maybe I should also try to find his book?

Michael

Tim Simmons · 19th December 2005, 07:26 PM

I have seen it for sale on two sites so far, one in Aus the other in the USA, for what I think is really very little indeed. Tim

Tim Simmons · 28th December 2005, 09:20 PM

Micheal,

I can be a bit slow but this parang is the same blade form as your Malay Semelai parang. This might mean blades supplied to a region with a specific taste. I also post a picture of a Senoi from the north with a stone axe. He has a parang without a scabbard, looks as if it could be a little bit hurty! thats not a real word. Tim

17th December 2005, 03:13 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Another strange, non-textbook, parang Thanks all who participated in the other thread on the Aceh/Batak Klewang that's "unfortunately" on its way to a non-forum member in France. I hope you also could be interested to discuss this tricky parang? I haven't either found this one in any reference works. My guess is either Borneo (Murut, Melanau) or Sumatra? Or could it be Moro (the handle has some resemblence to a Barong)? Look forward to all input to help me trace its origin. Thanks, Michael Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 17th December 2005 at 03:31 PM. Reason: spelling

17th December 2005, 06:35 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Here is another strange one. I did show it on the old forum and Tom very kindly suggested that the scabbard had some Morro aspects. As you can see it is from around ww2 or latter. I would imagine it is probably from Borneo as the UK did not get that involved with the PI but things and people move around, N Borneo and PI only seperated by islands in the Sulu sea. Tim Attached Images

17th December 2005, 08:59 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	How right you are, now you point it out, the wood is the same. I have another knife with a handle of the same wood, which I also suspect is from Borneo. I did show it many years ago but the response was a little poor. I think there are too many similarities in these knives, not to have come from the same place. Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 17th December 2005 at 09:31 PM.

19th December 2005, 12:41 AM	#13
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 486	Sheath Details Hi all, Perhaps the scabbard details of my blade will aid in assigning location. I have been torn between the Philippines and Indonesia but I think the Philippines is more likely. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images Last edited by RobT; 19th December 2005 at 12:44 AM. Reason: typo

28th December 2005, 09:20 PM	#24
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Micheal, I can be a bit slow but this parang is the same blade form as your Malay Semelai parang. This might mean blades supplied to a region with a specific taste. I also post a picture of a Senoi from the north with a stone axe. He has a parang without a scabbard, looks as if it could be a little bit hurty! thats not a real word. Tim Attached Images

17th December 2005, 03:36 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	My vote is Moro some form of bangkung? Lew

17th December 2005, 03:41 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Here's another for some form of Bangkung .

17th December 2005, 07:31 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	The decoration at the ends of both Michaels and my knife seem to share the same form. The decoration on my prang being a little more stylised. Tim

17th December 2005, 07:38 PM	#6
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Looks more like a Janap to me.

17th December 2005, 08:48 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for the feedback! Moro weapons are rare here in North Europe so the only Bangkungs I have seen are those in Cato's book with another kind of blade. But I always wanted a Bangkung in my collection so... What puzzles me a bit is the way the belt rope is attached to the scabbard. I haven't seen that with f.i. Barongs? It reminds me more of a Pakayun scabbard or other parangs I have seen in NW Borneo? Nice parang Tim. Interesting that the wood on your handle is also striped like the wood on my scabbard. Zelbone, what's a Janap (except that it looks like my and Tim's blade)? Michael

17th December 2005, 11:17 PM	#9
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I can see a vague similarity with a barong hilt but I have severe problems to believe that a traditional moro craftsman would butcher the kakatua pommel design in such a way. In my eyes this hilt could be based on the barong kakatua but I feel this was done by an outsider who didn't grasp (or didn't cared about) the underlying symbolism and went off in another direction. Areas close to Tausug territory (especially N or E Borneo) might be likely places for its origin IMVHO. Regards, Kai

18th December 2005, 08:42 AM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I am pretty sure the parang that I post is from N Borneo and made by an outsider could just be cultural diffusion. I do not know about Michael's unless you include that one too. It would seem that the striped wood is widespread. Tim

18th December 2005, 09:53 AM	#11
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Good morning Tim, I think your first parang could be from Sabah. When I was at the Kota Belud market I remember seeing newly made parangs with hilts and scabbards resembling yours. I had a look at one I bought for my son and the part on the scabbard where the belt rope is inserted is identical to yours. It's also probable that a parang from Sabah (former British Borneo) ends up in UK. Maybe John (from KK) can confirm this? Michael

19th December 2005, 09:09 AM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Hello RobT, I wish I could be more helpful but we just got lucky with a picture of Micheal's Semelai finished parang. Your knife is very much like the one that started the thread. Tim

19th December 2005, 03:12 PM	#15
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	I still think that both Michael's and RobT's swords are utak janaps which are Moro tools/weapons. A bangkung would have a straighter spine much like a lumad kampilan or a binangon. The janap has also a more squared off tip. Basically, it's more of a utilitarian bolo, but as seen with other bolos across the Philippines they can be used as weapons. The two examples posted here are fancier than more typical janaps meaning these were intended to be used as weapons. The scabbards look like mid 20th C. sulu design and the hilts also have the hybrid kakatua/horsehoof or nay kuray pommel (I believe that's the term...my reference book on this is being borrowed by the guy that won the ivory pommel barung the other day.) If I had to take a guess, I suspect these are from Sulu or Basilan. Hope this helps .

20th December 2005, 06:49 AM	#17
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Guys, The book I have is a collection of journal articles written about the history and arts in Sulu. I don't have the book on hand right now since I loaned it out to a fellow collector, but I believe the title is Sulu Studies. In one chapter they do describe the utak janap and it's intended use and there might be an illustration. The copy I have is relatively recent and should be available....and it's in English. Sorry I don't have the ISBN number which would make locating a copy easier. You might want to search on the old forum because I believe I actually wrote about that book and gave all the pertinent information of finding it. Actually, there's some very valuable information in that book that any collector of Sulu weapons would find very useful. Like I said, I don't have the book right now, otherwise I'd have the information for all of you. As for a tool version of an utak janap, I saw one last year at Cecil Quirino's house when a few of us collectors here paid him a visit. It was pretty plain, but had a similar hilt. I should have bought it! Regards, Zel

20th December 2005, 07:27 AM	#18
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	What!!!!! You lend your books

19th December 2005, 06:31 PM	#20
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	If this works, there is a little interesting background and information on the fate of Major Williams-Hunt No I cannot get the link to work. Use google enter Major P.D.R. Williams-Hunt, the first site should be, The Aboriginal Factor, worth a look. Tm

19th December 2005, 07:19 PM	#21
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	http://askari_mb.tripod.com/id84.htm

19th December 2005, 07:21 PM	#22
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Zel and Tim, Zel, is there any reference picture of an utak janap in your reference book? What's the name of the book and is it in Tagalog? Tim, interesting link. Maybe I should also try to find his book? Michael

19th December 2005, 07:26 PM	#23
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I have seen it for sale on two sites so far, one in Aus the other in the USA, for what I think is really very little indeed. Tim