Minang Keris with mixed influences?

VVV · 26th September 2006, 11:24 AM

Hi all,

It's been quite slow on this list for a couple of days and I hope you could help me learn some more about this Keris.
It was collected in Minangkabau but I think it looks like it has influences from Gayo/Aceh as well as Bugis?
The hilt is described as an Indragiri variation in the book Hulu Keris.
What do you think about the origin of this Keris?
And what do you think about the blade?

Michael

More pictures at:
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

Alam Shah · 26th September 2006, 03:24 PM

I know little about Sumatran keris. I know even lesser about this keris. But here goes.

I kind of agree with Indragiri opinion of the hilt (Pg:65, Fig:107).

For the sheath, there is quite a gap, when the blade is sheath, which suggests, the blade is not original to the sheath, or vice-versa.

The pendok's buntut looks similar to this piece.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php
Wide, flaring with whirls decor. It is however not the same as Gayo style.

A sample of a Gayo keris can be found in Bambang's Ensiklopedi Keris, Pg: 234. Another could be found in Dominique Buttin's website (but without a buntut and a missing hilt cup).

http://old.blades.free.fr/keris/coll...atra/ksm03.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

What do you think about the origin of this Keris?
And what do you think about the blade?

The blade, hmmm... tricky. Could it be a Javanese trade blade, dressed in Sumatran style? The blade design is Dapur Pulanggeni.

Just my thoughts.

Henk · 26th September 2006, 10:30 PM

Michael,

To be honest it looks to me as a composed keris. I love the dress, but the blade doesn't fit the sheath. I think Alam Shah is right that the blade is javanese, not uncommon to find a javanese blade in Sumatra and in a Sumatran dress, but the sheath wasn't made for this kerisblade.

VVV · 26th September 2006, 11:29 PM

Alam Shah,

I am impressed by your humbleness

On the gap I don't think it's that prominent.
When in the sheath it fits tight and doesn't move or "rattle".
But you are correct that there is some small space on the top of the sheath.

On Gayo Keris I think the best source is Sejr Jensen's book.
Obviously Bambang Harsrinuksmo thought so too.

Henk,

Is it the blade you don't think fit the dress or is it because of the pictures of the Keris in the sheath?
Do you have some other reference pictures of Indragiri style Keris and their blades as a comparison?
Indragiri has historical influences from Aceh, Java, Bugis, Portugal, India, Arabic countries, Holland etc.

Michael

drdavid · 27th September 2006, 06:31 AM

Hi VVV
is it just the photos or is the hilt not a good fit in the hilt cup?
DrD

VVV · 27th September 2006, 07:05 AM

Hi DrD,

Now you make me insecure.
But if you compare with the following Keris, the first Panjang in my archive, that has the same kind of Selut it seems to have a similar fit.
Maybe it's because of that I turn the handles in all directions when taking pictures (instead of turning the complete Keris)?
Or maybe none of them fits?
I will take it apart tonight when back home and have a really close look.

Michael

Henk · 27th September 2006, 03:39 PM

Michael,

I'm afraid I have no reference pictures to show you.

I think the keris doesn't fit the dress because you can see on the picture that the blade doesn't fit perfectly in the wrangka. In my opinion the blade was put in this scabbard because the blade was going in and had a reasonable fit. So the sheath was a replacement.

26th September 2006, 11:24 AM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Minang Keris with mixed influences? Hi all, It's been quite slow on this list for a couple of days and I hope you could help me learn some more about this Keris. It was collected in Minangkabau but I think it looks like it has influences from Gayo/Aceh as well as Bugis? The hilt is described as an Indragiri variation in the book Hulu Keris. What do you think about the origin of this Keris? And what do you think about the blade? Michael More pictures at: http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Attached Images

26th September 2006, 10:30 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Michael, To be honest it looks to me as a composed keris. I love the dress, but the blade doesn't fit the sheath. I think Alam Shah is right that the blade is javanese, not uncommon to find a javanese blade in Sumatra and in a Sumatran dress, but the sheath wasn't made for this kerisblade.

26th September 2006, 11:29 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Alam Shah, I am impressed by your humbleness On the gap I don't think it's that prominent. When in the sheath it fits tight and doesn't move or "rattle". But you are correct that there is some small space on the top of the sheath. On Gayo Keris I think the best source is Sejr Jensen's book. Obviously Bambang Harsrinuksmo thought so too. Henk, Is it the blade you don't think fit the dress or is it because of the pictures of the Keris in the sheath? Do you have some other reference pictures of Indragiri style Keris and their blades as a comparison? Indragiri has historical influences from Aceh, Java, Bugis, Portugal, India, Arabic countries, Holland etc. Michael

27th September 2006, 06:31 AM	#5
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Hi VVV is it just the photos or is the hilt not a good fit in the hilt cup? DrD

27th September 2006, 07:05 AM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi DrD, Now you make me insecure. But if you compare with the following Keris, the first Panjang in my archive, that has the same kind of Selut it seems to have a similar fit. Maybe it's because of that I turn the handles in all directions when taking pictures (instead of turning the complete Keris)? Or maybe none of them fits? I will take it apart tonight when back home and have a really close look. Michael

27th September 2006, 03:39 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Michael, I'm afraid I have no reference pictures to show you. I think the keris doesn't fit the dress because you can see on the picture that the blade doesn't fit perfectly in the wrangka. In my opinion the blade was put in this scabbard because the blade was going in and had a reasonable fit. So the sheath was a replacement.