HISTORY OF STEEL IN EASTERN ASIA EXHIBITION NOW ONLINE

Antonio Cejunior · 10th December 2006, 11:59 AM

Greetings everyone,

The exhibition online shown below is finally ready to be visited.

Your are most welcome to click on the image and discover it.

You are as well cordially invited to start different topics in this forum concerning your interests.

I wish to take this opportunity to reiterate my thanks to this wonderful forum, to all moderators and all contributors who made this event possible.
I hope you enjoy the virtual visit. Again, thank you very much.

Ann Feuerbach · 10th December 2006, 01:41 PM

GREAT EXHIBITION! Thanks for info on the online exhibition!

mmontoro · 10th December 2006, 03:39 PM

Thank you for making this available. Very nice to see so many recognizable pieces (and names) in this context.

Antonio Cejunior · 12th December 2006, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmontoro

Thank you for making this available. Very nice to see so many recognizable pieces (and names) in this context.

I was just the assembler, Montoro. All the tremendously generous collectors who have contributed to this exhibition should be the ones to be congratulated.

They have defined themselves as highly responsible and generous citizens of the world, honest, dignified, honorable.

I wish to publicly thank all and everyone of them. I am honored to have worked with them.

Antonio

Antonio Cejunior · 12th December 2006, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Feuerbach

GREAT EXHIBITION! Thanks for info on the online exhibition!

Hello Ann,

Thank you so very much for the encouraging words.
Always a great pleasure hearing from a great lady

Very best regards

Antonio

MABAGANI · 10th December 2006, 04:59 PM

There are four significant errors in the historical timeline of the Philippines from the website.
Correct years:
1898 Philippine government declares independence
1899-1902 Philippine-American War (first shot in 1899, declared over in 1902, armed conflict into the 1920s)
1899-1936 Moro-American War (undeclared)/(first shots 1899, full campaigns until 1936 when the military transfers from the US to the Philippine Commonwealth)
1946 US grants Philippines independence

Article states "1898-1901" and "1901-1915" and incorrect independence info?

The term "Filipino" is used too loosely mixing modern adaptation with historical context, the designation was created during the Spanish Era for Spaniards born in the Philippines, so the article doesn't make sense the way its written, citing Filipinos in 10th century China or Spanish era Philippines, etc.

MABAGANI · 12th December 2006, 08:30 PM

Here's one more missed by the museum curatorial staff -
"1521 Magellan is the first Westerner to land in the Philippines"
I didn't know cowboys existed in the 16th century...lolz

As a matter of fact, Ferdinand Megellan was not the first European to explore the archipelago, but the first to circumnavigate the world, the Portuguese didn't complete his return voyage to Spain because he was killed by the sword on Mactan island in the battle against Lapu Lapu and his warriors.

Rivkin · 12th December 2006, 01:04 AM

Gentlemen,

Great effort, congratulations. At the same time I do find certain articles hm... highly nationalistic I would say. Well, most of historians, especially those working on weapons are nationalists of some kind.

ariel · 12th December 2006, 01:53 AM

Best wishes and many thanks to all of you!
I am waiting for the catalogue....

Andrew · 12th December 2006, 02:38 AM

At the posters' requests, I have removed several posts. Let's please keep this on-topic folks.

(Ron, you didn't request your post be removed, but it quoted Antonio's, and made no sense after the other posts were removed.).

Andrew · 13th December 2006, 11:56 PM

We're off-topic now, and the current discussion is certainly worthy of its own thread.

I'm going to split the topic.

MABAGANI · 14th December 2006, 06:39 AM

Ian, I'll be forwarding an email with more written errors found and passed on to me by contributors and non-contributors for the HOS site.
I retired from the eewrs but after first reading the site, I was astounded and thought it was important to point out the obvious errors regarding history, much of it was already documented so don't take my word for it, unfortunate for the rush to finish without thorough proofreading.
The displays cases throughout each section of the museum looked nice, must have been great for people to see it live.
I'd like to read more reviews about the different exhibits, good or bad...
A researcher once told me hearing everyone praise and agree with him is like talking to a wall, he welcomed others to challenge his theories and work to validate or invalidate his points and to stimulate new ideas.

Battara · 17th December 2006, 08:00 PM

After much thought and consideration, I will respond to this.

As the only person to be involved with both attempts at this exhibit I come to this with perhaps a strange perspective. First, Mabagani, I would have loved to have worked with you on this second attempt. You would have been such an asset and I was dissappointed that you turned down the opportunity. Yes mistakes were made, but I wish you could have been part to help us earlier. These were not intentional nor an attempt to slander any of my fellow Pinoy.

What saddens me is that the anger that this endeavor has generated. I remember a conversation I had with someone who knows Cato and they said that Cato is aware of the mistakes in his work and regrets them. I think as the writers we are open to feedback (yes we were in a hurry that is true) but not to have fingers waved in our faces. If any one feels insulted by what we attempted to do then I am sorry, none was meant.

MABAGANI · 17th December 2006, 08:30 PM

Worthy of headline news- "Macao Snubs Philippines"
Macao museum commits an international faux pas. The original blunder was placing the Philippines in an exhibit called "History of Steel in the Eastern Asia" 2006. What was a grand concept where the museum would host a display of antique weaponry from around the world during the 2005 East Asian Games in Macao, instead turns into a grand fiasco when coordinators revamped the show and misfit the Philippines section into an exhibit about Eastern Asia. In the study of cultures, the Philippines is properly categorized with Southeast Asia and nations with ancient ties to the Srivisaya and Majapahit empires. The coordinators were also informed of blatant historical mistakes after the museum went public with an online site. Instead of rushing to correct the errors made online like the haphazard hurry to finish printed text for the opening and hardcopy, the computer edition easily fixed with the clicks of a keyboard were ignored adding insult to injustice.

pm me

ariel · 18th December 2006, 01:59 AM

Gentlemen,
I do not have a dog in this fight and if any of you asks me to shut up, I shall do it with understanding and humility.

Nevertheless, it pains me to see this Forum turning into a shouting match with mutual accusations and acrimony. We have seen it happening elsewhere and it was not a pretty sight.

In the immortal words of Rodney King " Can we all just get along?"

Rick · 18th December 2006, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

What saddens me is that the anger that this endeavor has generated. I remember a conversation I had with someone who knows Cato and they said that Cato is aware of the mistakes in his work and regrets them. I think as the writers we are open to feedback (yes we were in a hurry that is true) but not to have fingers waved in our faces. If any one feels insulted by what we attempted to do then I am sorry, none was meant.

I share Battara's feelings but I do not feel one bit apologetic.

I would much rather have seen this project followed through to completion by the original SFI team.

Frankly I'm tired of feeling that I'm being pilloried for having tried to help salvage this exhibition by contributing pieces. I'm also insulted by insinuations that contributions were made in order to get them "published" for personal gain.

MABAGANI · 28th December 2006, 05:08 PM

"Tolerance and lest we perpetuate misinformation"

Aside from the botched historical article in the Philippine exhibit, I also forwarded information to coordinators about incorrect categories and mislabeled swords. After bringing these matters to attention, nothing has been changed by the Macao Museum's administrator, in turn inaction is against EEWRS forum rules for inciting "INTOLERANCE", "FLAMES, INSULTS, BIGOTRY" and making statements that are now "knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane" towards the race and nation of the Philippines.

For the record, Filipinos members of EEWRS were treated unjustly as a consequence of the Macao HOS project. Filipinos were publicly bashed on the EEWRS, contributors received artifacts damaged and there was an account of money swindled from a participant. Filipino members wanted to be disassociated from the ill-fated unsatisfactory exhibit.

The article and exhibit for the Philippine section does not merit a critique because its an unresearched rough draft containing too many mistakes. The display itself had false catagories with swords placed in the wrong headings. The exhibit, at least the Philippine section, should have been canceled rather than "salvaged and rushed" and unsuitably grouped with Eastern Asia.

Inadvertently, during and after the course of the exhibit, EEWRS was unable to moderate effectively because a majority of moderators were part of the project. Before the start of the second exhibit attempt I caught the Macao Museum assembler's abusive intolerant nature in a posted thread and decide not to join. Had he been banned for breaking the forum rules this whole episode may not have occurred.

Keep in mind, next time someone plans to do an exhibit, world class museums book their events up to two years in advance, details worked out beforehand. Real museums conserve and protect artifacts including their history. Why the Philippines section was expected to come up with an exhibit practically from scratch in a few months and put in a display about Eastern Asia was senseless and the fallout was unnecessary. Unfortunately, people were misled into peril and would like to put the ordeal in the past.

IMHO this thread should be locked and the link to the HOS website removed "lest we perpetuate misinformation". Individual links (excluding the Philippines section) for each of the remaining exhibit sections could be listed for participants who were able to present decent work and research.

Andrew · 30th December 2006, 11:27 PM

After careful consideration, I'm reopening this thread.

This discussion must stay civil.

10th December 2006, 11:59 AM	#1
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	HISTORY OF STEEL IN EASTERN ASIA EXHIBITION NOW ONLINE Greetings everyone, The exhibition online shown below is finally ready to be visited. Your are most welcome to click on the image and discover it. You are as well cordially invited to start different topics in this forum concerning your interests. I wish to take this opportunity to reiterate my thanks to this wonderful forum, to all moderators and all contributors who made this event possible. I hope you enjoy the virtual visit. Again, thank you very much.

10th December 2006, 04:59 PM	#6
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	INCORRECT PI HISTORY? There are four significant errors in the historical timeline of the Philippines from the website. Correct years: 1898 Philippine government declares independence 1899-1902 Philippine-American War (first shot in 1899, declared over in 1902, armed conflict into the 1920s) 1899-1936 Moro-American War (undeclared)/(first shots 1899, full campaigns until 1936 when the military transfers from the US to the Philippine Commonwealth) 1946 US grants Philippines independence Article states "1898-1901" and "1901-1915" and incorrect independence info? The term "Filipino" is used too loosely mixing modern adaptation with historical context, the designation was created during the Spanish Era for Spaniards born in the Philippines, so the article doesn't make sense the way its written, citing Filipinos in 10th century China or Spanish era Philippines, etc. Last edited by MABAGANI; 10th December 2006 at 11:02 PM.

12th December 2006, 08:30 PM	#7
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	? Here's one more missed by the museum curatorial staff - "1521 Magellan is the first Westerner to land in the Philippines" I didn't know cowboys existed in the 16th century...lolz As a matter of fact, Ferdinand Megellan was not the first European to explore the archipelago, but the first to circumnavigate the world, the Portuguese didn't complete his return voyage to Spain because he was killed by the sword on Mactan island in the battle against Lapu Lapu and his warriors.

12th December 2006, 02:38 AM	#10
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	At the posters' requests, I have removed several posts. Let's please keep this on-topic folks. (Ron, you didn't request your post be removed, but it quoted Antonio's, and made no sense after the other posts were removed.). Last edited by Andrew; 12th December 2006 at 06:56 PM.

14th December 2006, 06:39 AM	#12
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Ian, I'll be forwarding an email with more written errors found and passed on to me by contributors and non-contributors for the HOS site. I retired from the eewrs but after first reading the site, I was astounded and thought it was important to point out the obvious errors regarding history, much of it was already documented so don't take my word for it, unfortunate for the rush to finish without thorough proofreading. The displays cases throughout each section of the museum looked nice, must have been great for people to see it live. I'd like to read more reviews about the different exhibits, good or bad... A researcher once told me hearing everyone praise and agree with him is like talking to a wall, he welcomed others to challenge his theories and work to validate or invalidate his points and to stimulate new ideas. Last edited by MABAGANI; 14th December 2006 at 08:22 AM.

10th December 2006, 01:41 PM	#2
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	GREAT EXHIBITION! Thanks for info on the online exhibition!

10th December 2006, 03:39 PM	#3
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Thank you for making this available. Very nice to see so many recognizable pieces (and names) in this context.

12th December 2006, 01:04 AM	#8
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Gentlemen, Great effort, congratulations. At the same time I do find certain articles hm... highly nationalistic I would say. Well, most of historians, especially those working on weapons are nationalists of some kind.

12th December 2006, 01:53 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Best wishes and many thanks to all of you! I am waiting for the catalogue....

13th December 2006, 11:56 PM	#11
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	We're off-topic now, and the current discussion is certainly worthy of its own thread. I'm going to split the topic.

17th December 2006, 08:00 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	After much thought and consideration, I will respond to this. As the only person to be involved with both attempts at this exhibit I come to this with perhaps a strange perspective. First, Mabagani, I would have loved to have worked with you on this second attempt. You would have been such an asset and I was dissappointed that you turned down the opportunity. Yes mistakes were made, but I wish you could have been part to help us earlier. These were not intentional nor an attempt to slander any of my fellow Pinoy. What saddens me is that the anger that this endeavor has generated. I remember a conversation I had with someone who knows Cato and they said that Cato is aware of the mistakes in his work and regrets them. I think as the writers we are open to feedback (yes we were in a hurry that is true) but not to have fingers waved in our faces. If any one feels insulted by what we attempted to do then I am sorry, none was meant.

17th December 2006, 08:30 PM	#14
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Worthy of headline news- "Macao Snubs Philippines" Macao museum commits an international faux pas. The original blunder was placing the Philippines in an exhibit called "History of Steel in the Eastern Asia" 2006. What was a grand concept where the museum would host a display of antique weaponry from around the world during the 2005 East Asian Games in Macao, instead turns into a grand fiasco when coordinators revamped the show and misfit the Philippines section into an exhibit about Eastern Asia. In the study of cultures, the Philippines is properly categorized with Southeast Asia and nations with ancient ties to the Srivisaya and Majapahit empires. The coordinators were also informed of blatant historical mistakes after the museum went public with an online site. Instead of rushing to correct the errors made online like the haphazard hurry to finish printed text for the opening and hardcopy, the computer edition easily fixed with the clicks of a keyboard were ignored adding insult to injustice. pm me

18th December 2006, 01:59 AM	#15
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Gentlemen, I do not have a dog in this fight and if any of you asks me to shut up, I shall do it with understanding and humility. Nevertheless, it pains me to see this Forum turning into a shouting match with mutual accusations and acrimony. We have seen it happening elsewhere and it was not a pretty sight. In the immortal words of Rodney King " Can we all just get along?"

28th December 2006, 05:08 PM	#17
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	"Tolerance and lest we perpetuate misinformation" "Tolerance and lest we perpetuate misinformation" Aside from the botched historical article in the Philippine exhibit, I also forwarded information to coordinators about incorrect categories and mislabeled swords. After bringing these matters to attention, nothing has been changed by the Macao Museum's administrator, in turn inaction is against EEWRS forum rules for inciting "INTOLERANCE", "FLAMES, INSULTS, BIGOTRY" and making statements that are now "knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane" towards the race and nation of the Philippines. For the record, Filipinos members of EEWRS were treated unjustly as a consequence of the Macao HOS project. Filipinos were publicly bashed on the EEWRS, contributors received artifacts damaged and there was an account of money swindled from a participant. Filipino members wanted to be disassociated from the ill-fated unsatisfactory exhibit. The article and exhibit for the Philippine section does not merit a critique because its an unresearched rough draft containing too many mistakes. The display itself had false catagories with swords placed in the wrong headings. The exhibit, at least the Philippine section, should have been canceled rather than "salvaged and rushed" and unsuitably grouped with Eastern Asia. Inadvertently, during and after the course of the exhibit, EEWRS was unable to moderate effectively because a majority of moderators were part of the project. Before the start of the second exhibit attempt I caught the Macao Museum assembler's abusive intolerant nature in a posted thread and decide not to join. Had he been banned for breaking the forum rules this whole episode may not have occurred. Keep in mind, next time someone plans to do an exhibit, world class museums book their events up to two years in advance, details worked out beforehand. Real museums conserve and protect artifacts including their history. Why the Philippines section was expected to come up with an exhibit practically from scratch in a few months and put in a display about Eastern Asia was senseless and the fallout was unnecessary. Unfortunately, people were misled into peril and would like to put the ordeal in the past. IMHO this thread should be locked and the link to the HOS website removed "lest we perpetuate misinformation". Individual links (excluding the Philippines section) for each of the remaining exhibit sections could be listed for participants who were able to present decent work and research.

30th December 2006, 11:27 PM	#18
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	After careful consideration, I'm reopening this thread. This discussion must stay civil.