Sumatran keris

Anthony G. · 21st January 2023, 05:00 AM

Do you think this is a Javanese keris bilah, despite being in a Sumatran keris dress.

milandro · 21st January 2023, 09:32 AM

Despite the Lampung (or perhaps Palembang but I believe is the first) hilt and selut , this is a think, a Javanese or perhaps even more likely Maduran blade.

I have had a couple of similar blades in the past but I din't keep pictures

jagabuwana · 21st January 2023, 10:25 AM

I'll offer an opinion, with a disclaimer that you probably shouldn't put much stock into it because I'm hoping to use it an opportunity to test myself and see what more experienced members have to say to compare.

I say Javanese based on:
- the long-ish gonjo with the tungkakan and spur ricikan (is this ari pandan). I don't know these to be Sumatran features.
- the boto rubuh blumbangan, which might lend evidence to more specific Javanese classifications like West Jawa/Sunda, except I think maybe the gonjo does not support a West Jawa claim.

rasdan · 21st January 2023, 11:37 AM

In my opinion this type of blade style spreads throughout West Java up to Palembang in Sumatera. There is very little reliable guide can be used to differentiate accurately the origin of the blade. It could well be a Sumatran piece as well as West Java piece. Style indicators can be mixed with pieces from this area.

In my opinion, what is important is that this blade has good quality and the overall blade style and dress matches the possible geographical origin of the keris. No point arguing on the origin of the blade.

David · 21st January 2023, 03:00 PM

That’s a lot to determine from a single over all photo viewed on the internet. Also, I am currently looking at this on my phone, so I don’t have the best view. We all know that certain in areas of Sumatra such as Palembang keris were greatly influenced by Jawa.
I might change my mind later when I can see this photo more closely, but this could very well be a Sumatran blade.

David · 21st January 2023, 06:22 PM

I will also say that if we are to look at a photo and try to assess a keris that the best orientation to do that is with the keris pointing upwards.

David · 21st January 2023, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

- the long-ish gonjo with the tungkakan and spur ricikan (is this ari pandan). I don't know these to be Sumatran features.

I can address this one concern and say definitively that this spur feature on the gonjo (and i am not sure is this specific feature, when a stand alone in this position on the gonjo, is called ri pandan or not) can indeed be found on Sumatran keris.

A. G. Maisey · 21st January 2023, 07:07 PM

Anthony, has the gonjo been made as a separate forging, and is that forging a complex pamor miring?

David · 21st January 2023, 09:16 PM

Good questions Alan, and i would suggest that Anthony upload some higher quality close up images. I think it is difficult to be too sure about anything from this one photo.

Anthony G. · 22nd January 2023, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Anthony, has the gonjo been made as a separate forging, and is that forging a complex pamor miring?

Hi Alan

Good day. The gonjo is indeed a separate piece and left a bit of gold marking. It is a well forged pamor miring.

21st January 2023, 05:00 AM	#1
Anthony G. Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 463	Sumatran keris Do you think this is a Javanese keris bilah, despite being in a Sumatran keris dress. Attached Images

21st January 2023, 09:32 AM	#2
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 474	Despite the Lampung (or perhaps Palembang but I believe is the first) hilt and selut , this is a think, a Javanese or perhaps even more likely Maduran blade. I have had a couple of similar blades in the past but I din't keep pictures Last edited by milandro; 21st January 2023 at 11:40 AM. Reason: wrote sumatran but meant Javanese

21st January 2023, 06:22 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	I will also say that if we are to look at a photo and try to assess a keris that the best orientation to do that is with the keris pointing upwards. Attached Images

21st January 2023, 10:25 AM	#3
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 280	I'll offer an opinion, with a disclaimer that you probably shouldn't put much stock into it because I'm hoping to use it an opportunity to test myself and see what more experienced members have to say to compare. I say Javanese based on: - the long-ish gonjo with the tungkakan and spur ricikan (is this ari pandan). I don't know these to be Sumatran features. - the boto rubuh blumbangan, which might lend evidence to more specific Javanese classifications like West Jawa/Sunda, except I think maybe the gonjo does not support a West Jawa claim.

21st January 2023, 11:37 AM	#4
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	In my opinion this type of blade style spreads throughout West Java up to Palembang in Sumatera. There is very little reliable guide can be used to differentiate accurately the origin of the blade. It could well be a Sumatran piece as well as West Java piece. Style indicators can be mixed with pieces from this area. In my opinion, what is important is that this blade has good quality and the overall blade style and dress matches the possible geographical origin of the keris. No point arguing on the origin of the blade.

21st January 2023, 03:00 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	That’s a lot to determine from a single over all photo viewed on the internet. Also, I am currently looking at this on my phone, so I don’t have the best view. We all know that certain in areas of Sumatra such as Palembang keris were greatly influenced by Jawa. I might change my mind later when I can see this photo more closely, but this could very well be a Sumatran blade.

21st January 2023, 07:07 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,889	Anthony, has the gonjo been made as a separate forging, and is that forging a complex pamor miring?

21st January 2023, 09:16 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	Good questions Alan, and i would suggest that Anthony upload some higher quality close up images. I think it is difficult to be too sure about anything from this one photo.