British pattern Infantry sword....please help

katana · 19th December 2006, 05:16 PM

Just added this sword to my collection.....wanted to have some 'colonial' weapons....which possibly would have seen service in Africa, India etc. to put the Ethnographic weapons, of the same period, into some sort of context.

I need help identify the pattern and possible age of this sword.....nicely balanced and very manouverable. O.A.L 31", blade has single wide fuller and has a few, very faint traces of etched patterns. Some very old nicks to the blade but overall good.
I noticed on one side of the blade some pitting (in a localised area)which seemed 'not quite right'.....investigating the 'pits' with a Jewelers loupe I found there are some very minute pieces of 'foreign' metal fragments 'inbedded' in the 'craters'. (when I say minute, I mean they are not really visible to the naked eye) I am certain they are not impurites forged into the blade, perhaps suggesting shrapnel

The proof mark has 'MB' in an Italic style.

This sword has certainly seen some action..... and probably has 'many a tale to tell'.....

Please any comments or info.....as usual....very gratefully received

Regards David

Paul Digard · 19th December 2006, 08:22 PM

Hi David

It looks like a P1827 pattern Rifle officer's sword though the design of the bugle in the hilt cartouche is slightly different to any I recall seeing before. The fullered blade and inset proof disc date it to later than c. 1850. I suspect the blade has been shortened though - the blade by itself should be around 32.5 inches with 6 or more inches after the end of the fuller.

Is there any etched decoration on the blade? I would expect a VR cypher and quite possibly the name of the regiment. There were an awful lot of volunteer rifle brigades set up in Britain in the mid Victorian era and one of these would be pretty unlikely to have seen service overseas.

Hope this helps

Paul

Rick · 19th December 2006, 11:26 PM

bump

spiral · 19th December 2006, 11:50 PM

Reminds me of the UK Police, prison & customs officers swords, they are nearer that length, but I dont think they would have the bugle, thats normaly for light infantry rregiments.

Spiral

katana · 19th December 2006, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Digard

Hi David

It looks like a P1827 pattern Rifle officer's sword though the design of the bugle in the hilt cartouche is slightly different to any I recall seeing before. The fullered blade and inset proof disc date it to later than c. 1850. I suspect the blade has been shortened though - the blade by itself should be around 32.5 inches with 6 or more inches after the end of the fuller.

Is there any etched decoration on the blade? I would expect a VR cypher and quite possibly the name of the regiment. There were an awful lot of volunteer rifle brigades set up in Britain in the mid Victorian era and one of these would be pretty unlikely to have seen service overseas.

Hope this helps

Paul

Thankyou Paul.....and welcome to the forum...I am sure you'll enjoy it here on the Forum.

The blade is indeed short it is 25 3/4 "" long .......6 3/4" too less than the 'regulation' length

There are no visible signs of this sword having been 'cut down', it must have been well done and very early in its life (the colouring/patina is consistant with the rest of the blade). It was the length ........or should that be ....its shortness...that threw me.It had all the characteristics of the p1827 but the length was nowhere near.

The other strange thing is that the balance of this sword is excellent and the ease of use surprised me. Perhaps this was shortened to achieve this goal

Surely the extra 6 3/4" would change all that...in a negative way

Jeff D · 20th December 2006, 02:42 AM

Hi katana,

I think that is a Wilkinson proof mark. Is there a number on the spine of the blade. Good eye Paul (and welcome here), that looks like a hunting horn, I have never seen that one before?

hope this helps.
Jeff

katana · 20th December 2006, 01:05 PM

Thankyou, Spiral your suggestions will give me another area to research.

(sorry I didn't notice your post....we must have posted at around the same time)

Thanks Jeff for your input....unfortunately there are no serial numbers. The etching on the blade is very badly worn, I can just make out a crown and some 'foliage' type design ....so no clues there either. I did not realise that the 'horn' could be helpful in IDing the sword...I will post a better pic of it soon.

katana · 20th December 2006, 01:34 PM

The 'Horn'....

19th December 2006, 05:16 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	British pattern Infantry sword....please help Just added this sword to my collection.....wanted to have some 'colonial' weapons....which possibly would have seen service in Africa, India etc. to put the Ethnographic weapons, of the same period, into some sort of context. I need help identify the pattern and possible age of this sword.....nicely balanced and very manouverable. O.A.L 31", blade has single wide fuller and has a few, very faint traces of etched patterns. Some very old nicks to the blade but overall good. I noticed on one side of the blade some pitting (in a localised area)which seemed 'not quite right'.....investigating the 'pits' with a Jewelers loupe I found there are some very minute pieces of 'foreign' metal fragments 'inbedded' in the 'craters'. (when I say minute, I mean they are not really visible to the naked eye) I am certain they are not impurites forged into the blade, perhaps suggesting shrapnel The proof mark has 'MB' in an Italic style. This sword has certainly seen some action..... and probably has 'many a tale to tell'..... Please any comments or info.....as usual....very gratefully received Regards David Attached Images

20th December 2006, 01:34 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	The 'Horn'.... Attached Images

19th December 2006, 08:22 PM	#2
Paul Digard Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 13	Hi David It looks like a P1827 pattern Rifle officer's sword though the design of the bugle in the hilt cartouche is slightly different to any I recall seeing before. The fullered blade and inset proof disc date it to later than c. 1850. I suspect the blade has been shortened though - the blade by itself should be around 32.5 inches with 6 or more inches after the end of the fuller. Is there any etched decoration on the blade? I would expect a VR cypher and quite possibly the name of the regiment. There were an awful lot of volunteer rifle brigades set up in Britain in the mid Victorian era and one of these would be pretty unlikely to have seen service overseas. Hope this helps Paul

19th December 2006, 11:26 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	bump

19th December 2006, 11:50 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Reminds me of the UK Police, prison & customs officers swords, they are nearer that length, but I dont think they would have the bugle, thats normaly for light infantry rregiments. Spiral

20th December 2006, 02:42 AM	#6
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi katana, I think that is a Wilkinson proof mark. Is there a number on the spine of the blade. Good eye Paul (and welcome here), that looks like a hunting horn, I have never seen that one before? hope this helps. Jeff

20th December 2006, 01:05 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thankyou, Spiral your suggestions will give me another area to research. (sorry I didn't notice your post....we must have posted at around the same time) Thanks Jeff for your input....unfortunately there are no serial numbers. The etching on the blade is very badly worn, I can just make out a crown and some 'foliage' type design ....so no clues there either. I did not realise that the 'horn' could be helpful in IDing the sword...I will post a better pic of it soon.