British or Indo Persian Blade?

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

I have this British sword which is a bit of an enigma. Either it is a British made copy of an Indo Persian sword blade or it is an original Indo Persian blade that has been rehilted and engraved.


The blade is 78cm long and 3.3cm wide at its widest points which are at the ricasso and yelman. It has no fullers and much less distal taper than you would normally find on a British sword of this period. Most of the blade's curve is in the second half which is also very unusual for a British blade. The spine of the blade is slightly rounded which is also unusual. Unfortunately the tip of the blade is extensively pitted from past corrosion. It is engraved with the Initials J St L and the crest of the St Leger family, which makes it likely that its original owner was John Hayes St Leger who was a career army officer and one time best friend of George the Prince of Wales later King George IV. There is also the faint remnant of the pre 1801 British royal coat of arms engraved on the blade and the name of the British sword cutler Thomas Gill. It would be unusual for a British sword maker to put their name on a blade they didn't make.


I can see no evidence that the blade may be wootz, apart from the fact the steel has a "different" look about it, which may be just my imagination. I have read that wootz patterns may be masked by the wrong polish and the faint engraving suggests this blade has been extensively polished in the past. I should also add that John St Leger spent time in India.

I am looking for some advice, namely:


1. Do other people think the blade looks Indo Persian and could be wootz?

2. How can I test if it is wootz, without ruining the patina of the blade?

Cheers,
Bryce

[Ian]

Hi Bryce:

This one may get more informed responses about British swords in the European Armory, so I'm transferring it over there. The Gill family, including Thomas Gill (II), were prominent British sword makers, and I don't see anything here that would persuade me that this is not a British made sword from that maker. The broad V-grind to the edge is similar to the grind on many tulwar of the 18th and 19th C., and it is possible that the sword was sharpened locally during the owner's time in India. As far as it being a wootz blade, I don't see any evidence of that, but a little cleaning and etching under the langet might be informative (without affecting the patina on the main part of the blade).

Ian.

[ariel]

I fully agree: 100% British.

[thinreadline]

Looks like a British 1788 Light Dragoon sabre

[Bryce]

Thanks guys,

I think I may try etching a small patch of blade.

Thinredline, the hilt is certainly in the style of the 1788 light cavalry officers' sabre, but the blade is very different.

Cheers,
Bryce

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Bryce

How can I test if it is wootz, without ruining the patina of the blade?

Hello Bryce,

first you should check every inch of the untouched blade with a magnifying glass and a small LED-flashlight for laminations or traces of wootz.

If you find nothing I would suggest to use a mild etchant like 4% Nital or 5% Seno 3207 without previous polishing. You can remove this staining without destroying the Patina (which is in my opinion just corrosion).

Another simple way is to hold the blade under running hot water (>50°C) and wait for a while. This would normally bring out laminations, if there are some, without touching the patina.

I think like the others, this is a high quality European copy of a Persian Shamshir or Kilij with a European hilt. These blades were extremely popular among cavalry officers during the Napoleonic campaigns.


Roland