Assistance for a keris novice

shayde78 · 29th June 2017, 05:49 PM

Hi all!
I'm new to learning about keris, although the form has intrigued me since I was a child. I only have one such piece in my 'collection' (if so few items can be called a collection). I am hoping some of the expertise of this forum can help me gain a more informed appreciation. I have attached pictures below. I have seen examples of very poorly executed naga that seem very superficially etched on the blade. For this piece, it seems the serpent was chiseled into the metal in a much more substantial way. Also, the edge is very thin, worn, and nicked. I'm wondering if this suggests age as I believe the acid etching done regularly can wear away the thinner parts of the metal. The hilt (forgive my use of generic terms) doesn't seem to have much age to it. The scabbard appears to be of a single piece of wood (rather than the collar being separate from the main shaft. Is this something more modern tools allow for, or does this suggest an older item.

Again, I know there are very specific words applied to each of these features, but at the risk of misusing them, and causing more confusion, I am relying on the more general terms. No disrespect intended.

Thank you to anyone who is able to provide information as to the form/style, country of origin, approximate date, etc. I am thrilled to have finally 'married' one, and will be equally happy if this was manufactured last week, or last century. I would just like to learn more.

Thanks!

David · 29th June 2017, 10:17 PM

Hi Shayde, welcome to the forum.
Though your photos are not extremely clear it seems to me that there may indeed be some age on your blade, however i suspect the the somewhat crudely carved naga was done at a much later contemporary date, possibly to give what is a fairly standard, lower end blade more appeal in the marketplace. Of course there could be other reasons for the addition, but i can't think of any way to confirm why it was added. But i seriously doubt it was born with this naga.
Your sheath, as you have noted, seems to be made in one piece. We refer to that as wrongko iras, "iras" meaning one piece. That does not necessarily imply modern tools and i would say there is some age on this sheath. Wrongko iras are generally prized as they are rarer and more difficult to carve. I also like the brass (?) open-cut pendok though it seems to be a bit ill-fitted and may not be original to the sheath. The blade, OTOH, appears to fit the sheath fairly well so it was either made specifically for this blade or adapted to it. The dress is what is know as Surakarta gayaman (everyday) form.

A. G. Maisey · 30th June 2017, 01:07 AM

David, my immediate impression was that I was looking at an old blade that had been carved with the naga the day before yesterday, but as I studied it further I formed a different opinion, or rather, two opinions.

To begin, I'd place the dress as pre-WWII, the blade fits nicely so the blade was very probably as we see it, pre-WWII.

Something that used to be done a long time ago was to take very large Tuban blades and use them to produce more attractive keris. This happened in the late 19th century, through to WWII, and a few were even done in the 1950's. I'm pretty sure this died out by the 1960's, I'd guess because the great big Tuban blades that were used as the raw material had become scarce and expensive --- these days those original giant size Tuban blades are very rare, very highly desirable and very expensive.

So this keris could easily be one of the alterations based on a big Tuban blade, but from a long time in the past.

The other alternative is low quality work, probably from a village smith, but again, pre-WWII.

Either way, I'd consider this keris a pretty good start to a collection, but I would be inclined to give the dress a bit of a facelift.

shayde78 · 30th June 2017, 03:39 AM

David and AG,
Thank you so much for so quickly providing such useful information. You have confirmed some guesses I had about it. I too noticed how perfectly the blade fits the scabbard and thought they were indeed well matched. Also, the blade just 'feels' old aesthetically. Add to that the fact that I received her covered in cosmoline...yuck. I believe you can still see some residue in the pictures (since removed).
I will try to post some better pics tomorrow and see if that helps. Thanks again

David · 30th June 2017, 05:02 AM

Agreed. I think that sheath could look pretty decent with a bit of renewal.

shayde78 · 30th June 2017, 06:33 PM

Thanks again. Out of curiosity, what would giving the scabbard a 'bit of a facelift' entail? Do you mean the metal components being replaced, or the wood itself? I ask because the wood is actually in beautiful condition, although that doesn't come across so well in the pics.

Here are additional images that I hope are more clear. Regarding the carving of the naga, it does appear to be integral to the blade itself (i.e. it seems as though the blade was forged with the idea of carving this figure). I am not at all familiar with the Tuban blades, and if they would afford enough 'meat' with which to work. I tried to include pictures that show the naga's head as being carved 'in the round' and being properly three-dimensional. Still, I'm eager to hear any additional impressions.

Cheers!
[note - for a sense of scale, the squares on the chess board are 2"x2"]

shayde78 · 30th June 2017, 06:35 PM

And just some additional views [for scale, squares on the board used for background are 2"x2"]

David · 30th June 2017, 07:25 PM

Thanks for the better photos Shayde.
The pendok (metal part of the sheath) is even nicer than first appeared with these detail shots.
I remain pretty well convinced that your naga was carved well after this keris was forged. Whether that was still some time ago (pre-WWII) or later could probably still be a matter of debate, but i'm pretty sure this blade was not born to be a naga keris.
I will leave most questions of "facelifts" to others like Alan who have perhaps handled more renovation work than i have, however, if this were mine i would slide the pendok off and carefully clean and oil the wood. I might try to see if it is possible to carefully bend that pendok together a bit more at the top so that it fits more tightly to the wooded ridge on the sheath stem's center, though it may never fit quite right. I would certainly take a polishing cloth to the metal to brighten it up and maybe attempt to clean up the mendak (hilt ring) a bit. Keep in mind that keris dress is meant as an outward display during public wearing. Leaving tarnished metal parts would not be the way this keris would be maintained within the society.

29th June 2017, 05:49 PM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Assistance for a keris novice Hi all! I'm new to learning about keris, although the form has intrigued me since I was a child. I only have one such piece in my 'collection' (if so few items can be called a collection). I am hoping some of the expertise of this forum can help me gain a more informed appreciation. I have attached pictures below. I have seen examples of very poorly executed naga that seem very superficially etched on the blade. For this piece, it seems the serpent was chiseled into the metal in a much more substantial way. Also, the edge is very thin, worn, and nicked. I'm wondering if this suggests age as I believe the acid etching done regularly can wear away the thinner parts of the metal. The hilt (forgive my use of generic terms) doesn't seem to have much age to it. The scabbard appears to be of a single piece of wood (rather than the collar being separate from the main shaft. Is this something more modern tools allow for, or does this suggest an older item. Again, I know there are very specific words applied to each of these features, but at the risk of misusing them, and causing more confusion, I am relying on the more general terms. No disrespect intended. Thank you to anyone who is able to provide information as to the form/style, country of origin, approximate date, etc. I am thrilled to have finally 'married' one, and will be equally happy if this was manufactured last week, or last century. I would just like to learn more. Thanks! Attached Images

30th June 2017, 06:33 PM	#6
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thanks again. Out of curiosity, what would giving the scabbard a 'bit of a facelift' entail? Do you mean the metal components being replaced, or the wood itself? I ask because the wood is actually in beautiful condition, although that doesn't come across so well in the pics. Here are additional images that I hope are more clear. Regarding the carving of the naga, it does appear to be integral to the blade itself (i.e. it seems as though the blade was forged with the idea of carving this figure). I am not at all familiar with the Tuban blades, and if they would afford enough 'meat' with which to work. I tried to include pictures that show the naga's head as being carved 'in the round' and being properly three-dimensional. Still, I'm eager to hear any additional impressions. Cheers! [note - for a sense of scale, the squares on the chess board are 2"x2"] Attached Images

30th June 2017, 06:35 PM	#7
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	And just some additional views [for scale, squares on the board used for background are 2"x2"] Attached Images

29th June 2017, 10:17 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Hi Shayde, welcome to the forum. Though your photos are not extremely clear it seems to me that there may indeed be some age on your blade, however i suspect the the somewhat crudely carved naga was done at a much later contemporary date, possibly to give what is a fairly standard, lower end blade more appeal in the marketplace. Of course there could be other reasons for the addition, but i can't think of any way to confirm why it was added. But i seriously doubt it was born with this naga. Your sheath, as you have noted, seems to be made in one piece. We refer to that as wrongko iras, "iras" meaning one piece. That does not necessarily imply modern tools and i would say there is some age on this sheath. Wrongko iras are generally prized as they are rarer and more difficult to carve. I also like the brass (?) open-cut pendok though it seems to be a bit ill-fitted and may not be original to the sheath. The blade, OTOH, appears to fit the sheath fairly well so it was either made specifically for this blade or adapted to it. The dress is what is know as Surakarta gayaman (everyday) form.

30th June 2017, 01:07 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	David, my immediate impression was that I was looking at an old blade that had been carved with the naga the day before yesterday, but as I studied it further I formed a different opinion, or rather, two opinions. To begin, I'd place the dress as pre-WWII, the blade fits nicely so the blade was very probably as we see it, pre-WWII. Something that used to be done a long time ago was to take very large Tuban blades and use them to produce more attractive keris. This happened in the late 19th century, through to WWII, and a few were even done in the 1950's. I'm pretty sure this died out by the 1960's, I'd guess because the great big Tuban blades that were used as the raw material had become scarce and expensive --- these days those original giant size Tuban blades are very rare, very highly desirable and very expensive. So this keris could easily be one of the alterations based on a big Tuban blade, but from a long time in the past. The other alternative is low quality work, probably from a village smith, but again, pre-WWII. Either way, I'd consider this keris a pretty good start to a collection, but I would be inclined to give the dress a bit of a facelift.

30th June 2017, 03:39 AM	#4
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	David and AG, Thank you so much for so quickly providing such useful information. You have confirmed some guesses I had about it. I too noticed how perfectly the blade fits the scabbard and thought they were indeed well matched. Also, the blade just 'feels' old aesthetically. Add to that the fact that I received her covered in cosmoline...yuck. I believe you can still see some residue in the pictures (since removed). I will try to post some better pics tomorrow and see if that helps. Thanks again

30th June 2017, 05:02 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Agreed. I think that sheath could look pretty decent with a bit of renewal.

30th June 2017, 07:25 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Thanks for the better photos Shayde. The pendok (metal part of the sheath) is even nicer than first appeared with these detail shots. I remain pretty well convinced that your naga was carved well after this keris was forged. Whether that was still some time ago (pre-WWII) or later could probably still be a matter of debate, but i'm pretty sure this blade was not born to be a naga keris. I will leave most questions of "facelifts" to others like Alan who have perhaps handled more renovation work than i have, however, if this were mine i would slide the pendok off and carefully clean and oil the wood. I might try to see if it is possible to carefully bend that pendok together a bit more at the top so that it fits more tightly to the wooded ridge on the sheath stem's center, though it may never fit quite right. I would certainly take a polishing cloth to the metal to brighten it up and maybe attempt to clean up the mendak (hilt ring) a bit. Keep in mind that keris dress is meant as an outward display during public wearing. Leaving tarnished metal parts would not be the way this keris would be maintained within the society.