French army. M1866 bayonet

David R · 14th October 2024, 11:23 PM

A rewarding and enjoyable day at a local antique arms fair and one of my prizes was this bayonet, a bit shabby, complete with scabbard and at a bargain price.Posting here with a question, how often, do these if ever. turn up in the hands of non military users in a colonial context, as in local guys carrying them as just a Yatagan, rather than an attachment to a rifle? It is a very handy side arm!

RobT · 15th October 2024, 12:21 AM

David R,

I saw one without the guard and with a horn hilt that looked like a typical Turkish yataghan hilt. There was no sheath. I would have loved to have it but it had just been purchased by another collector and he wasn't about to let it go. In regards to yours, I have to say that, compared to what I am used to seeing in the US, yours doesn’t look shabby at all and the prices here continue to go up. I have one made in Chatellerault and one made in St Etienne. Other arsenals are Mutzig, Paris-Oudry, Tulle, and perhaps Steyr but the ones I most often see here in the US are from St Etienne.If the serial numbers on the sheath and bayonet match, you got yourself a good bargain indeed.

Sincerely,
RobT

Jim McDougall · 16th October 2024, 09:05 PM

To me the most intriguing thing about French military bayonets is the potential of association with the French Foreign Legion (in a thread last year), and the novel "Beau Geste" by Christopher Wren. Then the movies, most well known the 1939 version with Gary Cooper.

In the book, it seems that the Gras M1874 was the last sword bayonet for the French, and sword bayonet was specified in the book.

It seems very possible that Chassepots (1866,1874,1876) might have been in use as well.

In the 1939 movie, the bayonet seen in the specified scene was a 1866 Lebel, epee type blade but not sword hilt....these were known as 'Rosalie'.

Naturally, it is hard to say which bayonet corresponds exactly to the Foreign Legion, regionally, period etc. and of course literature and movies do not necessarily specify correctly as a rule. However, this example to me is likely, 'of the type' in use, and that is enough for me.

C4RL · 20th October 2024, 02:51 PM

This is one I have, inherited from my Dad recently. He found it in a church sale just after the war hidden behind a pew (Yorkshire), he asked the man in charge about it and was told to “take it, I haven’t seen it”!
At that time my Dad (about 12~13 years old) wouldn’t have had any money & maybe “the man” (whoever he was?) knew this... different times!

David R · 20th October 2024, 05:25 PM

Very nice example, and with the leather frog an'all! Hard to conceive now but "back-in-the-day" a lot of stuff now collectable was seen as having little or no value at all. Bayonets used as fire pokers abounded and post war bring-backs were often seen as mere clutter. I started collecting in the mid 1960's on schoolby pocketmoney. 30 bob for a good kukri, same for an African spear, under a fiver for a rubbish wakizashi. I still have the kukri!

C4RL · 20th October 2024, 07:29 PM

That's a nice Kukri David 👍

Sadly the bayonet was very likely "cleaned" by my father sometime, I'm guessing before the 70's because as far as I remember the odd time I saw it growing up it always looked like that, kept in an old felt lined gun case.
He also had a 1917 Bolo & didn't know what it was, and this was definitely polished by him 😟. I've managed to i.d it as a Plumb (Philadelphia) from the barely visible markings. Again, different times regarding attitudes to "cleaning"!

14th October 2024, 11:23 PM	#1
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	French army. M1866 bayonet A rewarding and enjoyable day at a local antique arms fair and one of my prizes was this bayonet, a bit shabby, complete with scabbard and at a bargain price.Posting here with a question, how often, do these if ever. turn up in the hands of non military users in a colonial context, as in local guys carrying them as just a Yatagan, rather than an attachment to a rifle? It is a very handy side arm! Attached Images

15th October 2024, 12:21 AM	#2
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	I Saw One David R, I saw one without the guard and with a horn hilt that looked like a typical Turkish yataghan hilt. There was no sheath. I would have loved to have it but it had just been purchased by another collector and he wasn't about to let it go. In regards to yours, I have to say that, compared to what I am used to seeing in the US, yours doesn’t look shabby at all and the prices here continue to go up. I have one made in Chatellerault and one made in St Etienne. Other arsenals are Mutzig, Paris-Oudry, Tulle, and perhaps Steyr but the ones I most often see here in the US are from St Etienne.If the serial numbers on the sheath and bayonet match, you got yourself a good bargain indeed. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 15th October 2024 at 12:22 AM. Reason: grammar

20th October 2024, 02:51 PM	#4
C4RL Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 50	This is one I have, inherited from my Dad recently. He found it in a church sale just after the war hidden behind a pew (Yorkshire), he asked the man in charge about it and was told to “take it, I haven’t seen it”! At that time my Dad (about 12~13 years old) wouldn’t have had any money & maybe “the man” (whoever he was?) knew this... different times! Attached Images Last edited by C4RL; 20th October 2024 at 03:05 PM.

20th October 2024, 05:25 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Very nice example, and with the leather frog an'all! Hard to conceive now but "back-in-the-day" a lot of stuff now collectable was seen as having little or no value at all. Bayonets used as fire pokers abounded and post war bring-backs were often seen as mere clutter. I started collecting in the mid 1960's on schoolby pocketmoney. 30 bob for a good kukri, same for an African spear, under a fiver for a rubbish wakizashi. I still have the kukri! Attached Images

20th October 2024, 07:29 PM	#6
C4RL Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 50	That's a nice Kukri David 👍 Sadly the bayonet was very likely "cleaned" by my father sometime, I'm guessing before the 70's because as far as I remember the odd time I saw it growing up it always looked like that, kept in an old felt lined gun case. He also had a 1917 Bolo & didn't know what it was, and this was definitely polished by him 😟. I've managed to i.d it as a Plumb (Philadelphia) from the barely visible markings. Again, different times regarding attitudes to "cleaning"! Attached Images

16th October 2024, 09:05 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	To me the most intriguing thing about French military bayonets is the potential of association with the French Foreign Legion (in a thread last year), and the novel "Beau Geste" by Christopher Wren. Then the movies, most well known the 1939 version with Gary Cooper. In the book, it seems that the Gras M1874 was the last sword bayonet for the French, and sword bayonet was specified in the book. It seems very possible that Chassepots (1866,1874,1876) might have been in use as well. In the 1939 movie, the bayonet seen in the specified scene was a 1866 Lebel, epee type blade but not sword hilt....these were known as 'Rosalie'. Naturally, it is hard to say which bayonet corresponds exactly to the Foreign Legion, regionally, period etc. and of course literature and movies do not necessarily specify correctly as a rule. However, this example to me is likely, 'of the type' in use, and that is enough for me.