Dha: Origin? Age?

ariel · 23rd April 2006, 03:20 AM

My question is to everybody but especially to our esteemed Dhafiosos.
Here is a Dha (Dahb?) with a fully metal, brass( or bronze, never know the difference) turned handle. A segment is finely checkered. There is a brass (bronze? I am getting boring...) insert in the spine of the the blade, close to the handle.
How old? Where from?

Ian · 23rd April 2006, 04:09 AM

Hi Ariel:

Where: N. Thailand
When: Mid to late 20th C.

The solid brass handle is one of a kind IMO. It shows a mix of machining methods, with most of it having been turned on a lathe, although the checkering may have been done on another machine.

Definitely not an antique blade. The thin lines running the length of the blade and the squiggly "S" designs are all recent Thai embellishments that are not found much before the 1960s. There are older vines and vegetal designs that look a little like these, but they are clearly distinguished as incised designs whereas these "S" shapes have been punched into the blade.

These blades are generally of low quality, often unhardened. Don't try to cut anything with it.

The inset brass along the spine, often accompanied by incised lines and "X"s, is an older decoration perhaps dating from about 1900 or a little earlier. Again, typical N. Thai work.

Lots of these blades came back with GIs returning from Vietnam. Sometimes folks did not like the turned wooden handles on these swords and they replaced them with various materials. I have one rehilted in stag. Another that has been bolted to the tang. I've seen others rehilted with a D-guard, contoured grips, etc. I think someone along the line was taking machine shop and needed a project -- so he turned out this brass handle and stuck it on the end of his souvenir Thai daab. Then he sanded back the black painted scabbard to make it look more authentic and old.

Ian.

PUFF · 24th April 2006, 07:30 AM

I like the "project Dahb" idea.

Titus Pullo · 26th April 2006, 03:09 AM

The blade looks Siamese, and so does the handle. On Thai handle if there is a nob at the end, it's always pointier than others. I'm not sure what's the significance of that, but it may have to do with Hindu influence; maybe it signifies what the Hindus call civalinga, or something!

Andrew · 26th April 2006, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus Pullo

The blade looks Siamese, and so does the handle. On Thai handle if there is a nob at the end, it's always pointier than others. I'm not sure what's the significance of that, but it may have to do with Hindu influence; maybe it signifies what the Hindus call civalinga, or something!

Hi Titus.

Could you clarify what you mean by the terms "Siamese" and "Thai". Are you making a distinction between the two (i.e. time period) or using them synonymously?

Also, which others are you referring to when you say the Thai knobs are always pointier?

The possible Hindu Shiva lignum influence is something I hadn't considered previously. Could you expand on this or is it just an idle thought?

Thanks,
Andrew

Titus Pullo · 26th April 2006, 03:36 AM

Actually, I was using the term Siamese and Thai interchangabally. Siam was renamed Thailand after a military general dictator came to power.

And to answer your question! Yes, in Siam there is a hint of Hindu influence in Buddhism from the early Khmer empire, I believe. Previously, the Khmers were Hindu, but later adopted the Mon Therevada buddhism. Somehow, if I'm not mistaken, the two religeons melded together also in the Khmer empire. If you look at even the chess game they play in Thailand...the thing is always very pointy like the end of the sword handle. I think that's only in Thailand that is widely seen because Thai people are very religeous and superstitious! [laugh!] During the Ayutthaya period, and even during the early Rattanakosin era until today, most of the religeous cermonies were performed by Brahmans.

23rd April 2006, 03:20 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Dha: Origin? Age? My question is to everybody but especially to our esteemed Dhafiosos. Here is a Dha (Dahb?) with a fully metal, brass( or bronze, never know the difference) turned handle. A segment is finely checkered. There is a brass (bronze? I am getting boring...) insert in the spine of the the blade, close to the handle. How old? Where from? Attached Images

23rd April 2006, 04:09 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Mid to late 20th C. Thai -- decorative item only Hi Ariel: Where: N. Thailand When: Mid to late 20th C. The solid brass handle is one of a kind IMO. It shows a mix of machining methods, with most of it having been turned on a lathe, although the checkering may have been done on another machine. Definitely not an antique blade. The thin lines running the length of the blade and the squiggly "S" designs are all recent Thai embellishments that are not found much before the 1960s. There are older vines and vegetal designs that look a little like these, but they are clearly distinguished as incised designs whereas these "S" shapes have been punched into the blade. These blades are generally of low quality, often unhardened. Don't try to cut anything with it. The inset brass along the spine, often accompanied by incised lines and "X"s, is an older decoration perhaps dating from about 1900 or a little earlier. Again, typical N. Thai work. Lots of these blades came back with GIs returning from Vietnam. Sometimes folks did not like the turned wooden handles on these swords and they replaced them with various materials. I have one rehilted in stag. Another that has been bolted to the tang. I've seen others rehilted with a D-guard, contoured grips, etc. I think someone along the line was taking machine shop and needed a project -- so he turned out this brass handle and stuck it on the end of his souvenir Thai daab. Then he sanded back the black painted scabbard to make it look more authentic and old. Ian.

24th April 2006, 07:30 AM	#3
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	I like the "project Dahb" idea.

26th April 2006, 03:09 AM	#4
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	The blade looks Siamese, and so does the handle. On Thai handle if there is a nob at the end, it's always pointier than others. I'm not sure what's the significance of that, but it may have to do with Hindu influence; maybe it signifies what the Hindus call civalinga, or something!

26th April 2006, 03:36 AM	#6
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	Actually, I was using the term Siamese and Thai interchangabally. Siam was renamed Thailand after a military general dictator came to power. And to answer your question! Yes, in Siam there is a hint of Hindu influence in Buddhism from the early Khmer empire, I believe. Previously, the Khmers were Hindu, but later adopted the Mon Therevada buddhism. Somehow, if I'm not mistaken, the two religeons melded together also in the Khmer empire. If you look at even the chess game they play in Thailand...the thing is always very pointy like the end of the sword handle. I think that's only in Thailand that is widely seen because Thai people are very religeous and superstitious! [laugh!] During the Ayutthaya period, and even during the early Rattanakosin era until today, most of the religeous cermonies were performed by Brahmans.