A Nice Takouba just finished on eBay....Euro blade?

katana · 19th October 2006, 02:21 AM

A very nice bladed Takouba (apparently European...but I'm not so sure) and scabbard just finished on eBay. Had a really good feeling about this one......Bid slightly too little too late

....feel it was well worth the money......The Arabic script is interesting.... should have bid more

.
What do you think ?

mmontoro · 19th October 2006, 02:40 AM

was it this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220036874164

Lew · 19th October 2006, 03:09 AM

Katana

That looks like a locally made blade to me. What makes you think it's European?

Lew

Rick · 19th October 2006, 03:14 AM

<shrug> Meh ..., looks local to me too .

Tim Simmons · 19th October 2006, 12:27 PM

The blade looks local to me. I think you were right not to go any further. The handle was very scruffy. These are common, save your money and get a better one, maybe pay a little more. In my opinion some of these are far to highly priced.

katana · 19th October 2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmontoro

was it this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220036874164

Thanks Mmontoro yes it is ......It was rather late when I posted this thread...got a bit forgetful....

I was sceptical about the blade being European.... no maker's marks for instance....but still thought it nice. I agree the hilt was disappointing, I am sure that if it was a 'valued' Euro blade the hilt would also reflect this. The seller states that it is European.......there does seem to be a culture of the 'lost crusader' swords rehilted as Kaskara (more so) and Takouba, I think the seller may have 'enticed' interest by placing Kaskara in the title....oh....and the arabic script would have helped too

katana · 19th October 2006, 03:39 PM

Images added for future searches

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3358

I dont want to appear to be a hypocrite

zalmoxis · 19th October 2006, 09:24 PM

Can anybody tell me with a real argument why this blade is not European?
Can they tell me which part of the Africa was ever capable to produce a thick blade with 2 real fullers, maybe the Tuareg blacksmiths

.
Has anybody seen a Tuareg sword with European blade that had the maker mark still on it? I have not seen on any of the 30-40 swords that passed my hand such blade or in any book.
The Tuareg made blades are flat and very elastic usually with 3 scratched decorative fullers in the way Kaskara blades are but much lighter or with no fuller at all, the ones made in Northern Nigeria in the 20th century.
This blade is 1/8 inches thick and very heavy.
Gentlemen please open your books and let me know, not only what you feel it might be but what you KNOW it is

.
artotec

Tim Simmons · 19th October 2006, 09:39 PM

I am curious as to why you doubt the smiths ability. Just look at the Massai spear, produced by smiths many hundreds of miles from any permanent building. These swords may well have been produced from any of the many sahal towns that included such things as universities and the like. making a sword cannot be that hard

.

katana · 19th October 2006, 09:55 PM

Hi Arotec,
I hope you dont mind me posting the pictures.
I said that I wasn't certain about the blade.....but I agree that if it is local manufacture it is a very good one. When I researched Takouba's ...my information was that Euro blades were rare....less so with the Kaskara. Generally (according to the articles I read) , Euro blades carried makers marks and commonly blades of 'local' manufacture 'imitated' these marks as a sign of quality.On that basis there was a real POSSIBILITY that this was not European. I agree with your comments about Takouba blades usually being thin and springy.
I actually 'stayed up' to bid on this sword, which I did, just under the selling price and was unable to increase my offer in time. I posted this because I was uncertain about the blade and was surprised that the price was not higher.......which started me thinking that others disagreed with the European provenance for the blade, (bearing in mind they are rarer). Also the hilt decoration seemed average.....many of the hilts on Euro blades seem to have more adornment....
I hope you have not taken personal offence as no offence was meant...this was a genuine question to further mine (and others reading these threads) knowledge.

Lew · 19th October 2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zalmoxis

Can anybody tell me with a real argument why this blade is not European?
The Tuareg made blades are flat and very elastic usually with 3 scratched decorative fullers in the way Kaskara blades are but much lighter or with no fuller at all, the ones made in Northern Nigeria in the 20th century.
This blade is 1/8 inches thick and very heavy.
Gentlemen please open your books and let me know, not only what you feel it might be but what you KNOW it is

.
artotec

Zalmoxis

Thickness of the blade is not an indication that a particular blade is European.
There are a few things to look for such as overall appearance Euro blades have a diiferent look to them they have a cleaner look to them with well defined fullers be they one wide one or three thinner ones and they have a stiff springiness to them. The smiths in that area of Africa can make blades from old machetes, sheet steel, rebar or truck leaf springs which would be the best choice to me. It really does not take that much effort for a good local smith to bang out and spring temper these sword blades I am sure that this is a cottage industry in many parts of West Africa. BTW I have a very nice takouba with a thick blade but it's no Euro blade. The blades pictured below are late 17th century or earl 18th German trade blades that were used on many kaskara and takouba.

Lew

19th October 2006, 02:21 AM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	A Nice Takouba just finished on eBay....Euro blade? A very nice bladed Takouba (apparently European...but I'm not so sure) and scabbard just finished on eBay. Had a really good feeling about this one......Bid slightly too little too late ....feel it was well worth the money......The Arabic script is interesting.... should have bid more . What do you think ?

19th October 2006, 03:39 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Images added for future searches http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3358 I dont want to appear to be a hypocrite Attached Images

19th October 2006, 02:40 AM	#2
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	was it this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220036874164

19th October 2006, 03:09 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Katana That looks like a locally made blade to me. What makes you think it's European? Lew

19th October 2006, 03:14 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	<shrug> Meh ..., looks local to me too .

19th October 2006, 12:27 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The blade looks local to me. I think you were right not to go any further. The handle was very scruffy. These are common, save your money and get a better one, maybe pay a little more. In my opinion some of these are far to highly priced.

19th October 2006, 09:24 PM	#8
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	Can anybody tell me with a real argument why this blade is not European? Can they tell me which part of the Africa was ever capable to produce a thick blade with 2 real fullers, maybe the Tuareg blacksmiths . Has anybody seen a Tuareg sword with European blade that had the maker mark still on it? I have not seen on any of the 30-40 swords that passed my hand such blade or in any book. The Tuareg made blades are flat and very elastic usually with 3 scratched decorative fullers in the way Kaskara blades are but much lighter or with no fuller at all, the ones made in Northern Nigeria in the 20th century. This blade is 1/8 inches thick and very heavy. Gentlemen please open your books and let me know, not only what you feel it might be but what you KNOW it is . artotec

19th October 2006, 09:39 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I am curious as to why you doubt the smiths ability. Just look at the Massai spear, produced by smiths many hundreds of miles from any permanent building. These swords may well have been produced from any of the many sahal towns that included such things as universities and the like. making a sword cannot be that hard .

19th October 2006, 09:55 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Arotec, I hope you dont mind me posting the pictures. I said that I wasn't certain about the blade.....but I agree that if it is local manufacture it is a very good one. When I researched Takouba's ...my information was that Euro blades were rare....less so with the Kaskara. Generally (according to the articles I read) , Euro blades carried makers marks and commonly blades of 'local' manufacture 'imitated' these marks as a sign of quality.On that basis there was a real POSSIBILITY that this was not European. I agree with your comments about Takouba blades usually being thin and springy. I actually 'stayed up' to bid on this sword, which I did, just under the selling price and was unable to increase my offer in time. I posted this because I was uncertain about the blade and was surprised that the price was not higher.......which started me thinking that others disagreed with the European provenance for the blade, (bearing in mind they are rarer). Also the hilt decoration seemed average.....many of the hilts on Euro blades seem to have more adornment.... I hope you have not taken personal offence as no offence was meant...this was a genuine question to further mine (and others reading these threads) knowledge.