Hand and a Half Sword

CSinTX · 10th August 2020, 05:47 AM

Recently added to my collection. Its extremely light and nimble in the hand. The blade is wide but flexible. The usual questions; age, origin, other known examples?

The straight line mark at the base of the fuller, would that have been from blade tongs during forging?

As always, all comments and questions are welcome!

Thanks!

Philip · 10th August 2020, 07:04 AM

Thanks for posting this, looks nice! Could you please give us some measurements, and the position of the balance point? Also,a pic of the tang button?

The "straight line" that you mention -- I trust that you're talking about the slight transverse indentation. Does it appear on both sides, exactly opposite?

Philip · 10th August 2020, 07:39 AM

Some examples of the genre to start the discussion. Line drawings show the gamut of hilt styles, from Ewart Oakeshott's European Weapons and Armour, fig 54. The simpler Group I guards are earlier, first third of the 16th cent. Photoplate is of 3 German bastard swords, 16th cent., in the Tower of London Armouries ( A. R. Duffy, European Swords and Daggers in the Tower of London, plate 13 ).

cornelistromp · 10th August 2020, 10:17 AM

diagonally recurved quillons flattened and expanding evenly towards their ends where they are scrolled sometimes also the scroll is splitted, is "common" on Italian rapiers about 1520-1620.
this type of pommel, converging towards the top was populair about 1570-1625.
so if the sword is authentic, which I cannot judge from the pictures probably italian, and late around 1600.

best,

ulfberth · 10th August 2020, 11:01 AM

Hi Casey , congratulations with a beautiful hand and half sword !
There is a similar one in the Wallace collection , however that one could be with a associated pommel it is a bit out of style with the guard , while your pommel is in style with the guard both are faceted and have the same type of design.
Here is the one in the Wallace collection and its description : Longsword Solingen, Germany and Switzerland Date: c. 1610 - c. 1630 (pommel) early 17th century (guards (Swiss))probably first half 16th century (blade (German))
Date:c. 1610 - c. 1630 (pommel)early 17th century (guards (Swiss))
probably first half 16th century (blade (German))
Longsword, the blued hilt made up of a pommel in the form of an elongated oval, divided by a central ridge, and notched in the middle on each side; grip, swelling in the middle, corded and bound with leather; diagonally curved guard with scrolled tips, and accommodating two large pierced shell-guards; the double-edged blade of hexagonal section with hollow groove, bears the running wolf mark inlaid in copper alloy.

Yvain · 10th August 2020, 01:19 PM

Very nice !

I don't have much to add, as Ulfberth already said everything, but I can however tell that, having personally handled an original XVIth longsword, this one looks good and authentic ! (With the usual caveat of judging such things from pictures only.)

I'm not sure what that dent or "line" is, but it is sure it is not a tong mark (you can't really mark a blade that deep just with your tongs during forging, and even if it was the case, it would have been polished out later). It could be a later blade damage, but could you tell us if that line is present on each face, and if the blade gets significantly thicker between the guard and the mark?

10th August 2020, 05:47 AM	#1
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	Hand and a Half Sword Recently added to my collection. Its extremely light and nimble in the hand. The blade is wide but flexible. The usual questions; age, origin, other known examples? The straight line mark at the base of the fuller, would that have been from blade tongs during forging? As always, all comments and questions are welcome! Thanks! Attached Images

10th August 2020, 07:39 AM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	images for comparison Some examples of the genre to start the discussion. Line drawings show the gamut of hilt styles, from Ewart Oakeshott's European Weapons and Armour, fig 54. The simpler Group I guards are earlier, first third of the 16th cent. Photoplate is of 3 German bastard swords, 16th cent., in the Tower of London Armouries ( A. R. Duffy, European Swords and Daggers in the Tower of London, plate 13 ). Attached Images

10th August 2020, 10:17 AM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	diagonally recurved quillons flattened and expanding evenly towards their ends where they are scrolled sometimes also the scroll is splitted, is "common" on Italian rapiers about 1520-1620. this type of pommel, converging towards the top was populair about 1570-1625. so if the sword is authentic, which I cannot judge from the pictures probably italian, and late around 1600. best, Last edited by cornelistromp; 10th August 2020 at 10:37 AM.

10th August 2020, 11:01 AM	#5
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 403	Hi Casey , congratulations with a beautiful hand and half sword ! There is a similar one in the Wallace collection , however that one could be with a associated pommel it is a bit out of style with the guard , while your pommel is in style with the guard both are faceted and have the same type of design. Here is the one in the Wallace collection and its description : Longsword Solingen, Germany and Switzerland Date: c. 1610 - c. 1630 (pommel) early 17th century (guards (Swiss))probably first half 16th century (blade (German)) Date:c. 1610 - c. 1630 (pommel)early 17th century (guards (Swiss)) probably first half 16th century (blade (German)) Longsword, the blued hilt made up of a pommel in the form of an elongated oval, divided by a central ridge, and notched in the middle on each side; grip, swelling in the middle, corded and bound with leather; diagonally curved guard with scrolled tips, and accommodating two large pierced shell-guards; the double-edged blade of hexagonal section with hollow groove, bears the running wolf mark inlaid in copper alloy. Attached Images

10th August 2020, 07:04 AM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Thanks for posting this, looks nice! Could you please give us some measurements, and the position of the balance point? Also,a pic of the tang button? The "straight line" that you mention -- I trust that you're talking about the slight transverse indentation. Does it appear on both sides, exactly opposite?

10th August 2020, 01:19 PM	#6
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 178	Very nice ! I don't have much to add, as Ulfberth already said everything, but I can however tell that, having personally handled an original XVIth longsword, this one looks good and authentic ! (With the usual caveat of judging such things from pictures only.) I'm not sure what that dent or "line" is, but it is sure it is not a tong mark (you can't really mark a blade that deep just with your tongs during forging, and even if it was the case, it would have been polished out later). It could be a later blade damage, but could you tell us if that line is present on each face, and if the blade gets significantly thicker between the guard and the mark?