Next keris from Polish Museum

[wolviex]

Dear Kerislovers!

This is just the next Keris from my Museum for your consideration. Please feel free to comment this nice piece, while I'm still completely unfamiliar with these beautiful weapons.

First of all, in my opinion, this keris is very beautiful in my eyes. I would like to know more about woman impersonation on the hilt. It is quite good piece of wood-work. Unfortunately the hilt is cracked in the lower part, and it's not fitted on the pin completely. Probably someone couldn't fit this, and it has cracked during the operation. Do you think that it's from other weapon and was refitted, or just someone bungle this work during ordinary cleaning?
Please take a look at the hands of this woman. Right hand looks quite normal, but the left one has very short middle fingers. I'm wondering, is its just carver's error?

Measurments:
overall: 45,7 cm (17,9 inch.)
blade: 36,1 cm (14,4 inch.)
width of the ganja (?): 8,3 cm (3,2 inch.)
hilt: 9 cm (3,5 inch.)

Hope you'll enjoy this one

best regards!

[wolviex]

Just two more pictures

[Lew]

One word STUNNING!!


Lew

[Jens Nordlunde]

It is a lovely piece, but unfortunately I know too little to comment it, none the less I apresiate the pictures very much.

Jens

[Tim Simmons]

Golly!

[nechesh]

That's a very unusal ukiran you've got there. It reminds me of the work of futurist sculptors like Boccioni and Brancusi. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they were inspired by the more abstract hilt forms of the Indonesian keris.
The blade seems well formed, but until you raise the pamor it is difficult to say just how good this keris might be. It looks like late 19thC work to me, probably Javanese. Does it have a sheath?

[BluErf]

I suspect this is an early Javanese piece. The handle, according to Martin Kerner's book, is veiled Durga. The proportions is not quite Balinese, especially with the bottom which seemed to fit a mendak than a Balinese 'hilt receptacle' (I don't know the term for that big round thing studded with gems ). But a Hindu Goddess would suggest a pre-Islamic era.

The greneng is the 'out-of-blade-profile' type. Later-day Javanese kerises usually have 'within-the-blade-profile' kind of greneng. And the overall execution of the blade is something reminiscent of the 16th century Javanese kerises in Karsten Jensen's book. If I may add, the execution of this keris is somewhat between a Balinese blade and a N Malayan blade. Both were supposed to have descended from early Javanese keris forms, and retained much of those characteristics. Interestingly enough, Javanese keris forms lost most of those old-style aesthetics and seemed to have moved inexorably into the realm of pamor, pamor, pamor.

[BluErf]

Attached examples of 2 Balinese and 1 N Malayan "out-of-blade-profile" greneng and 2 Javanese "within-the-blade-profile" greneng.

[BluErf]

I found a 'brother keris' in Karsten Jensen's book. Note the Shiva hilt. Very similar to the Durga hilt here. Dated to 16th/17th century.

[wolviex]

Thank you for kind words

BluErf and nechesh: thank you for your opinions and photos.

Few answers: there is no sheath
I wouldn't be surprised if it was older than 19th century, but I'm not assuming it either. This kris is from the very, very good collection, of one of the famous noble Polish family. "Unfortunately" they gathered mainly European firearms and some Polish weapons, but you can find there also few other things, like this keris. Because they didn't left any clues about these pieces, I can't tell you how they purchased them and when.

Regards!

[mhm27]

im new with this but what i`ve seen is absolutely beautiful and blending of the blade colour is undescribable.....wish i was into keris collection earlier

[Rick]

Originally Posted by mhm27

im new with this but what i`ve seen is absolutely beautiful and blending of the blade colour is undescribable.....wish i was into keris collection earlier

If you don't mind a fair amount of reading you may find this thread from the old forum enlightening .

Part I
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000307.html
PartII
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000402.html

[nechesh]

Kai Wee makes very good points about the greneng profile and i believe he is correct that this is an older piece. Thanks for all those pictures.
I would still stick to Javanese origin.
Even without seeing the pamor clearly it is certain that this is a very nice old blade. You should have the museum commission a sheath for it. It is well deserving of one.

[mhm27]

Originally Posted by Rick

If you don't mind a fair amount of reading you may find this thread from the old forum enlightening .

Part I
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000307.html
PartII
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000402.html

Hi rick,

thanks for the link and it was a great forum from the past and it`s more energy in the discussion form the seniors ha.....thanks again

[tuancd]

Hi! everyone

Thank you Boedhi for all the precisions you gave us. I sincerely hope to be able to read you more.

Just to mention, Sier (pronounce Sayer) Jensen, whose a good friend, is a Danish University historian. It's a shame is book has not yet been completely translated into English (just a small part of it included in the book) and it makes it difficult to understand. Not everybody speaks Danish.


Never the less, his book is great and his method the best. To date kriss, he has no method, he just read the inventory of the museum and says that if they entered the museum at a recorded date then they must have been forged before. Some other people used the same method to date Japanese suits of armour.

That's why we all have something to learn from his book.


I'll come back later to talk about the marvellous south east Javanese Durga that we have here.

[wolviex]

Boedhi Adhitya: thank you for your most informative post. I will join to the others with hope of leraning more from you in the future.

It's almost unbelievably, that making of keris handle is so difficult, and you that can't imitate it easily. I'm writing this, because if someone could imitate (let's think up)... Mona Lisa, why not ukiran. This is provocative question, because I'm wondering, do you mean literally only the surface of the handle, or there are some other features which are decisive on handle uniqueness. Sorry if this question is too much ignorant .

Second question - in the light of your words about uniquess of the ukirans, are there any thoughts you have about my keris' handle? Or, i.e., is it so unusual, as we decided it, that there is no chance to identify it more properly?

tuancd: that method you have mentioned is really great...well, almost...sometimes . In my case, it doesn't work properly

[nechesh]

Originally Posted by tuancd

Never the less, his book is great and his method the best. To date kriss, he has no method, he just read the inventory of the museum and says that if they entered the museum at a recorded date then they must have been forged before. Some other people used the same method to date Japanese suits of armour.

That's why we all have something to learn from his book.

Sorry Cedric, but i just can't comprehend how this could possible be the best method of dating. Say a Javanese keris is collected in the early part of the 19thC but is in fact a Keris Mojopahit from the 14thC. To say then that this keris is older than the 19thC, while correct, tells us very little about the blade.

Thank you, BTW, for posting the photos of the other Durga hilts. Seeing these first two clearly point out the subtlties in the carving of Wolviex's example, though i am sure the ivory is a much harder material to work in. Still, the flow of lines is much more dynamic and well proportioned than your examples. I wonder if the hand on the other side of your examples have the same foreshortened middle fingers???

[tom hyle]

I want to give my initial impressions before becoming confused by those who know more about k(e)ris than I do; I tend to get lost in the terminology and confused sometimes by other people's thoughts. Lovely, and with all the look of a very deadly weapon. I will assay nothing to do with place or age, as I've little doubt others have already told you that quite precisely, and my input would be both irrelevant and superceded. The blade seems to have a fairly crisp etch; probably one you can feel? It is not stained, which I'll just leave as a lone statement. The edge lamination does not appear to be a vastly different alloy from the body of the blade (the etching has not darkened either significantly more, though the main weld is quite visible in places, and we seem to be looking at the usual [but not universal] sandwich mai construction....). The handle carving is beautiful. I find the hollowed depiction of the feet, almost Mexican-Magic-Jesus-style (and the whole statue is in a style that reminds me of more Eastern Pacific work, and even Pacific coastal American Indian work), fascinating. The first thing I see with the left hand is that the line that divides the two middle fingers continues beyond the hand quite far (unlike the right hand), and appears to be a crack or other long flaw in the wood. Does this area seem to be darker and less clearly grained than the rest of the wood? I can't tell from the photos. Several types of such areas (scars, knots, burls, or even just the heart of the wood) can be oddly grained, often extra hard and brittle, and difficult to carve, so all this argues for an accident, likely during production, as you say. The figure is beautiful, but stylized and simplistic; it does not seem to have any intricate detail, and this also may argue for a lower-teir carver who might make such errors (I think I could almost carve this in good carving wood, and they probably wouldn't let me make wooden things and sell them in your country, Wolviex; just guessing based on Germany, actually though; there's still a guild there, last I heard, which was about AD 2002..... ). On the other hand, there are other differences. The thumb is similarly vague and rounded, but the two full length fingers seem strikingly more lifelike and wellformed on the left hand than any of the right. Is this a known meaningful gesture? The crack/flaw would then make sense as something in the wood that the caver blended into the carving.
As for the other crack and the slight protrusion of the tang, I have become intriqued by Laban Tayo's statement that the wedge shaped tang on a sword of his that seems to exhibit a similar situation was pushed out by hilt shrinkage; perhaps that relates in some way? Damage is of course real, but in truth, more of it occurs to swords (at least in these times) from neglect, travel, and exposure to air than from mechanical trauma.
On a linguistic side note, "Woman impersonation" makes a kind of comically out of place phrase in N American English; it's similar to a common vernacular term for male to femal cross-dressers ("female impersonator").

[Tim Simmons]

Hi Tom, it is not just the ability most important is the original concept,glad to hear you are that good .I will email you with some of my work.Tim

[tom hyle]

I totally agree, and the surfacing is real nice, too. I think I want a poster of this statue.

[nechesh]

Tom, i don't believe the lack of intricate detail argues for a lower-tier carver. This may, infact, be a depiction of Durga or some other goddess form, but it is abstracted, IMO, in an attempt to conform to islamic law, so i don't think this is necessarily pre-Islamic. To be a pre-Islamic hilt from Jawa it would have to be at least 16thC or older and that would make this a pretty old chunk of wood. It has a nice patina, but i hardly think it is that old. I actually think the conception and execution of this hilt required an artisan of great skill. IMO it is high art.
I don't think this blade is etched but unstained. I just think it has been a very long time since it's last staining.

[Rick]

This stunning Ukiran perfectly fits the quote of the famous architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe :

" Less is more ."

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by nechesh

IMO it is high art.

I agree, but that does not imply that there is anything especially difficult about the cuts or anything. The beauty and inspiration of the conception and the skill required for the execution are two pretty much entirely different things. I desire to explain myself as at least two persons seem to have somewhat misunderstood my statement. There is nothing particularly clumsy, amateurish, etc. about the execution of this piece (except perhaps the fingers, but I'm not convinced that's unintentional), however.......however, the cuts are simple, the surfaces are sweeping; there is little to no intricate detail (especially by Oceanic SE Asian terms); thus, everything about the carving, while not showing failure of skill, other than the debatable/unknown situation with the hands (which is exactly what I was pursuing of course), also does not display any especially great carving skill. I don't know this wood, but truly I'm pretty sure I could carve this, or come real close, given time and the will, and with my knives sharp and plenty to smoke, and I am no master carver; I often see carvings on this forum of which I would not say this. This simplicity in no way denigrates this sculpture! It could even be considered to speak of its essence.

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by nechesh

I don't think this blade is etched but unstained. I just think it has been a very long time since it's last staining.

This is most likely the mechanism by which it became etched but not stained, agreed; the stain probably wore off. That would be my guess, but it didn't look like a Java k(e)ris to me, so I was not entirely sure it would've ever been stained. Actually, and I am a bit surprised by this, it seems there may still be some uncertainty concerning the island/tribe/etc. of origin; I figured it would be all nailed down by now; sometimes I like to leave a k(e)ris thread alone until that stuff is all nailed down, then talk about what interests me about these often lovely dagger-swords. In any event, one point I was trying obliquely to make is that only very slight if any etching would be needed or helpful in resurfacing this piece because it is already pretty well done, while staining, if appropriate, is needed; there seems to be constant confusion between these two technical processes, so the division is good to point out.

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by nechesh

Tom, i don't believe the lack of intricate detail argues for a lower-tier carver. This may, infact, be a depiction of Durga or some other goddess form, but it is abstracted, IMO, in an attempt to conform to islamic law, so i don't think this is necessarily pre-Islamic. To be a pre-Islamic hilt from Jawa it would have to be at least 16thC or older and that would make this a pretty old chunk of wood. It has a nice patina, but i hardly think it is that old.

I think Java's conversion to Islam took place over a period of time, and even then, was not complete. The pasisir areas retained much of their rashaksa, ganesha forms even til this day, albeit covered and hidden in floral motifs. E Java still has its tree of life motif with parrot head on top, and sometimes angels by the side. So this hilt could be 17th century or even 18th century.

However, the condition of the piece may not be an indication of age. Looking at the Karsten Jensen example above, who would believe that they are looking at a 16th century keris and hilt. There are other examples in the Karsten Jensen books in which the ivory hilt is still cream coloured, and the sheaths retained their original pigments. Preservation and use (abuse) are important factors in how the hilt would end up looking after centuries. This keris here could have ended up in the collection and hardly handled; "kept in a cool, dry place", I guess.

[Tim Simmons]

This handle has been carved by a master.An obviously very high status client commisioned this piece ,we do not know what directions were given to the artists that made this,I am sure it was not just whittled on a whim untill it was thought finnished,it was made on request!The fact that it looks so simple and beautiful is because the carver was a master of the highest order, and indeed less is more.Those who are of the opinion that technical abillity is artistic merit need to go back to school.Tim

[BluErf]

We hear that the simplest things are often the most difficult to carve well because there is nothing to hide the flaws with. Its like singing karaoke without the echo, instrumental accompaniment and backup vocals -- the singer has to be damn good in order not to fall flat.

Some of the seemingly easy-to-carve bits are actually terribly difficult to carve.

Just a couple of examples:

1. The bugis pistol-grip handle. The form looks easy enough, but it has to feel right when gripped in the hand. Javanese/Madurese knock-offs of Bugis handles looked essentially the same, but is stiffer and doesn't feel right. This is because there should be an almost imperceptible twist in the 'head' of the handle. The other thing is -- notice the lines on the handle, especially the 'u-turn' double-line on the top back of the hilt (2nd pic). This is carved free-hand and on a curving surface, and the carver has only one stroke to do each line of that 'u-turn'. 1 mm off, and the lines don't join with the other lines properly.

2. The 'locust neck' sheath stem bottom. Looks plain and simple, but it is really quite difficult to shape from a square block. The inverted 'v' curves must fit perfectly between the 2 blocks of wood. 0.5mm off for any of the 4 curves on the inverted 'v' on either side and it won't fit.

[wolviex]

Thank you all!

If we are discussing the Ukiran at the moment, I think that these two left hand fingers were made purposely. I can't tell at the moment if the wood is harder in that place, but I would rather think about it as designedly. Writing about carver error I wanted to provoke discussion, beliving that someone saw something similiar, and could tell us, if it is known gesture or meaning.

This is beautiful piece of work, no doubt. I believe that someone will be able to call this deity: Nechesh mentioned Durga, I would like to know something more about her. I know that deities are sometimes problematic to identify, but please go on - any other ideas?

Thank you in advance

[Boedhi Adhitya]

Judging keris from it's picture is always very tricky for me, but that's the only way we could do here It looks like javanese keris for me, the "nem-neman" perhaps. Nem-neman term attributed to all kerises which were made after the Giyanti Treaty, which divided the mataram kingdom in 1792, until early 20th century. 36cm long is'n't long enough for Bali kerises, but quite long for Java. Here in Java, we measure the blade by "kilan" or "jengkal" traditional unit, that is, the distance between the thumb's point and little finger while you spreading them (mine is 20cm). Average Java keris (and Bugis, perhaps Malay also) have around one and a half kilan long, while bali keris might well over 2 kilans.

"out-of-blade" greneng profile is called "ron dha nunut". Greneng term is only used specifically for those thorn-like shape on ganja's tail. Once it come to the blade, it is called "ron dha nunut" nunut= to follow, ron=daun=leaf, dha=the "W"torn-like shape, which actually resembles the "dha" character on Javanese alphabet. the greneng on the sekar kacang is called "jenggot" or beard. Mpu put/made the greneng, ron dha nunut or jenggot on the blade according to the dhapur/blade shape he wished to made. There were a rule, not just for it's beauty, especially in Java. There always a name and meaning for every ricikan/blade details and luk. But for now, just admire the beauty It's true that the greneng shape might be the indicator for the age, but it's the "W" or dha which is used, not the "out-of-blade" or "within-the-blade" profile, at least here in Java, for what I've learnt. Some even believe that the greneng are actually the "hand-signature" of the empu.

I don't hold my opinions as to be the right ones. I just want to share what I've learnt, and to learnt much much more. Please do not feel offended

Anyway, good keris, Wolviex. Just wonder, how it could travel to Poland The pamor is beras wutah, and the dhapur might be Carita Kanawa, 9 luk. I don't bring the dhapur book, just relying my memory, so I couldn't assure you, sorry

[BluErf]

Hi Boedhi, thanks for sharing. I think you may have misunderstood my use of "out-of-blade-profile" and "within-the-blade-profile". In both cases, there are ron dha nunut, its only whether it sticks out of the blade profile like in the Balinese, Malay and the primary Javanese keris in discussion here, or whether it is cut into the blade profile, like in the 2 Javanese keris examples I have posted. I must admit that this out-of-profile and within-profile point is merely my observation of the Javanese kerises I have seen in person and in books. The older pieces (16th-maybe 18th century) had out-of-profile greneng. The recent ones (19th-21st century) had greneng that does not protrude from the blade profile line.