Sirau and their use

[Lew]

Hi All

Here are two siraui for comment. My main question is how were they used in combat? They seem to be more a thrusting type weapon similar to the Moro gunong. Any thoughts on this?

Lew

[kai]

Hello Lew,

The smaller one is sweet! The larger blade looks like it could have been refitted on Java? (I recently saw one offered from Java which had similar non-original fittings in Javanese style.)

Perhaps try to etch the blades?

how were they used in combat? They seem to be more a thrusting type weapon similar to the Moro gunong.

Sorrily, I haven't come across any knowledge from inside the culture. I think the closest match judging from the blade/hilt configuration is the Rencong (especially with hulu puntung). Barring any other relevations, I'd extrapolate from there...

Regards,
Kai

[KuKulzA28]

Perhaps it is unheard of, digging up an old old thread such as this...
But I'm also pretty curious about the method of use, and I don't think it's been answered.

But maybe the answer is looking at the ergonomics of the handle. There's 6 major ways to grip a knife if you think about it. They go something like this:

• Forward grip, edge down
• Forward grip, edge up
• Reverse grip, edge out
• Reverse grip, edge in
• Pinch/palm/ricasso grip
• Pistol grip for punch knives

From the look of it, it would seem to be awkward fighting with a Siraui in forward grip, edge up or down.

Maybe it was used in reverse grip, or ice-pick grip. Either edge-out and relying on slicing to get the job done..... Or perhaps a ricasso grip for stabs and horizontal slashes?

Perhaps someone who owns a Siraui can take it in hand and play with different grips to come to a more conclusive conclusion. Or perhaps speak to Gurus of Minangkabu silat...

[David]

hmmm....perhaps they are simply utility knives. From their shape and form and usual size (large ones can be found, but they are generally smaller blades) i don't get the impression that these are made to be fighting knives at all. Of course, any sharp edge in a jam i suppose, but i wouldn't search too long or hard for some kind of martial art form attached to these blades...

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by David

hmmm....perhaps they are simply utility knives. From their shape and form and usual size (large ones can be found, but they are generally smaller blades) i don't get the impression that these are made to be fighting knives at all. Of course, any sharp edge in a jam i suppose, but i wouldn't search too long or hard for some kind of martial art form attached to these blades...

I too tend to think they are utility knives or were originally. To me they have a feel of a very quick and easy rice cutter with good ergonomics, however like all utility items, I am sure they have at one time or another been used for other needs and likely saw some martial development at some time

From the one with me, there is only one grip that feels comfortable or natural and that is the pommel in the palm of my hand and my thumb and forefinger gripping the forte. It is a strong grip that offers the point at mid knuckle level and seems very capable of deep puncture. A back hand would rip the skin deep as the point is very robust but it is a rip as there is no edge on the inisde as is known. Should you end up behind someone, drawn across the throat is game over, the power of the grip and curve of the blade would show no remorse.

Zonneveld refer to Fischer 1918, does Fischers work/s nominate any further details?

[VVV]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Zonneveld refer to Fischer 1918, does Fischers work/s nominate any further details?

Gavin, if you give me the exact reference I can maybe look it up. I am traveling so I don't have van Z with me but I do have a copy of Fischer on my computer.
The Siraui is a utility knife and with small adaptions (like the way the knife is shifted in for instance Silat Bondawasa, for those of you who have trained with Uncle Bill) all the 6 listed grips are possible. I suspect that they were intended to be used, utility-wise, in a forward grip with edge down.

Michael

[Nonoy Tan]

The Bisayans of the Philippines used a small knife called “Baia” also known as “Pisao.” It was used for cutting and thinning rattan strips. It was not a weapon. Reference to this tool can be found in Part 1 Book 3 of “Historia de las Islas e Indios Visayas” (1668) written by Francisco Alcina.

[harimauhk]

As with many blades throughout the Nusantara, it is entirely possible versions existed both for use and for combat. Knowing where Kuk's little Javanese piece was made (they only make weapons), it would have been a request from the silat community in Indonesia. I think this form was used both for weapons as well as utility knives, much like the golok, kerambit and celurit.

I picked up my siraui earlier and will take pictures when the sun is up.

[harimauhk]

Still waiting to hear back from my guru. The forge that made this siraui in West Sumatra also makes Minang kerambits: this leads me to believe they are commonly considered to be weapons there too.

[VVV]

Nice knife but it is much too small for this category.
The size of a (classic) Siraui should be almost like a bread knife.
Maybe the apples and oranges-syndrome of size etc. is the reason between the this confusion?

Michael

[Sajen]

Agree with Michael, it has the form of a siraui but is much to small. Here for comparison a picture from one of my ones in hand.

Regards,

Detlef