16th Century German Staghorn Powderflasks

rickystl · 10th September 2011, 11:54 PM

Hello all. Here is a new item for my collection. It's complete and in working order. Any opinions to it's origin and data? It's made of staghorn with iron mounts. The metal parts have a thick dark patina. My thinking is early 18th or mid to late 17th Century? Maybe German? The patina is too thick to make out any identifying marks. I'm trying to decide if I should remove the top layer of the patina, leaving the original layer in tact. Should I do this? Thanks for looking. Rick.

Henk · 11th September 2011, 09:49 AM

I would say don't touch it!!!! It is gorgeous!! Great find. Congrats!!

Atlantia · 11th September 2011, 04:00 PM

Hi Rick

What a beauty! Congrats indeed!!

Best
Gene

Matchlock · 11th September 2011, 07:08 PM

Hi Rick,

Fine piece indeed!

This sort of staghorn flasks was made from the 1530's to the 1580's in Nuremberg, Germany. The characteristic Nuremberg leafwork engraving identifies yours as truly Nuremberg made. It is datable to exactly 1570-75. There never are marks on these so please to not take anything off the authentic surface. Remember that originally, the iron mounts were not bright but blued or blackened in order to achieve a nice contrast to the white polished horn on the front; with authentic flasks, the rear is almost left in the original rough natural staghorn surface. Yours even retains its belt hook, so congratulations!

Most of this kind of staghorn flasks offered for sale nowadays - and even preserved in museums! - show later alterations to either the top vertical cutoff lever and its double arm spring plus removal of the belt hook, and/or the engraving is mere fantasy. It really takes a lot of stylistic experience to identify an original piece.

A small number of these flasks, usually the earliest of ca. 1540-50, were left in their original staghorn surface all over and were mostly meant for military use together with petronel matchlock arquebuses. We know an engraving by the Nuremberg artist Jost Amman of ca. 1560 showing that combination, with the staghorn flask attached to the belt of an arquebusier's back.

I include that engraving and an image of the five staghorn flasks in my collection, from left:
Nuremberg, military, original staghorn surface, ca. 1555, the iron showing remains of its original minium paint
The Tyrol or Bavaria, dated 1565 (from Christie's, 1990), with a rare ball reservoir
a very rare three-way flask, Nuremberg, ca. 1540, engaved in the late Gothic style
Nuremberg, identical pieces known dated 1572
Nuremberg, picturing a couple within Nuremberg leafwork, ca. 1580 (from Sotheby's, The Royal House of Hanover, 2005)
All of them retain their full mounts and belt hooks.

More details to follow.

Best,
Michael

fernando · 11th September 2011, 07:35 PM

Hi Rick,
It looks like this fascinating thing has two legs and is running over to my house

.

Matchlock · 11th September 2011, 07:45 PM

Hi 'Nando,

One of mine is even three-legged, so the choice is up to you!

Best,
Michl

rickystl · 11th September 2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Rick,
It looks like this fascinating thing has two legs and is running over to my house

.

Hi Fernando!! I'm going to attach it to my belt so it can't move

10th September 2011, 11:54 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	16th Century German Staghorn Powderflasks Hello all. Here is a new item for my collection. It's complete and in working order. Any opinions to it's origin and data? It's made of staghorn with iron mounts. The metal parts have a thick dark patina. My thinking is early 18th or mid to late 17th Century? Maybe German? The patina is too thick to make out any identifying marks. I'm trying to decide if I should remove the top layer of the patina, leaving the original layer in tact. Should I do this? Thanks for looking. Rick. Attached Images

11th September 2011, 07:08 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Rick, Fine piece indeed! This sort of staghorn flasks was made from the 1530's to the 1580's in Nuremberg, Germany. The characteristic Nuremberg leafwork engraving identifies yours as truly Nuremberg made. It is datable to exactly 1570-75. There never are marks on these so please to not take anything off the authentic surface. Remember that originally, the iron mounts were not bright but blued or blackened in order to achieve a nice contrast to the white polished horn on the front; with authentic flasks, the rear is almost left in the original rough natural staghorn surface. Yours even retains its belt hook, so congratulations! Most of this kind of staghorn flasks offered for sale nowadays - and even preserved in museums! - show later alterations to either the top vertical cutoff lever and its double arm spring plus removal of the belt hook, and/or the engraving is mere fantasy. It really takes a lot of stylistic experience to identify an original piece. A small number of these flasks, usually the earliest of ca. 1540-50, were left in their original staghorn surface all over and were mostly meant for military use together with petronel matchlock arquebuses. We know an engraving by the Nuremberg artist Jost Amman of ca. 1560 showing that combination, with the staghorn flask attached to the belt of an arquebusier's back. I include that engraving and an image of the five staghorn flasks in my collection, from left: Nuremberg, military, original staghorn surface, ca. 1555, the iron showing remains of its original minium paint The Tyrol or Bavaria, dated 1565 (from Christie's, 1990), with a rare ball reservoir a very rare three-way flask, Nuremberg, ca. 1540, engaved in the late Gothic style Nuremberg, identical pieces known dated 1572 Nuremberg, picturing a couple within Nuremberg leafwork, ca. 1580 (from Sotheby's, The Royal House of Hanover, 2005) All of them retain their full mounts and belt hooks. More details to follow. Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 11th September 2011 at 10:41 PM.

11th September 2011, 09:49 AM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I would say don't touch it!!!! It is gorgeous!! Great find. Congrats!!

11th September 2011, 04:00 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Rick What a beauty! Congrats indeed!! Best Gene

11th September 2011, 07:35 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Rick, It looks like this fascinating thing has two legs and is running over to my house .

11th September 2011, 07:45 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, One of mine is even three-legged, so the choice is up to you! Best, Michl