Wehrmacht officers dagger

fenlander · 11th January 2007, 05:55 AM

Is this a genuine Wehrmacht Officer's Dagger? What do the experts on here think about the swords and knives on this site? Are they genuine and well priced ?

http://www.wwii-collectibles.com/Mer...egory_Code=grm

scroll down the page and check the next pages. He has lots of nazi knives and swords for sale.

Philip · 11th January 2007, 06:54 AM

I don't know if Nazi daggers (like bayonets and other military edged implements massed-produced in an industrial setting) can be strictly called "ethnographic", but maybe somebody else can weigh in. This isn't my field of interest or expertise by a long shot, but I have friends who have been active in this area for decades, and I'd like to pass an important caveat along to you.

This branch of collecting is loaded with fakes!!! Composite pieces and flat-out repros have been cranked out since the late 1950s in various countries, and each generation of fakes has gotten better and better. It's gotten to the point where you can't safely buy from pictures anymore unless you absolutely know and trust the seller. There is a considerable body of reference literature devoted to the problem of authenticity in Nazi daggers, and it's recommended that any collector study this religiously, and actually handle as many daggers as possible, before reaching for the checkbook. Anyway, this is what the 'pros' tell me and I hope that it saves you from flushing good money down the toilet on a bad piece.

fenlander · 11th January 2007, 07:56 AM

Good advice. I was a little surprised to see all those swords and daggers on the Internet, especially in that quality.

I was worried about asking the question on this site as it is very politically incorrect to discuss nazi daggers and swords etc. However i do think from an aesthetic point of view they look great; but personally I can't believe they are genuine in that condition.
Anyway you give great advice, thanks. Moderators please remove this post if it is offensive to any of your regulars. I won't be offended.

Philip · 11th January 2007, 08:35 AM

PC-ness can be taken too far; this is an edged weapons forum and Nazi daggers do have edges, and it's possible to discuss these without having to discuss Nazism (or any other political system) itself at a venue such as this.

Some folks might quibble about Nazi daggers and swords being "weapons" at all since they are for the most part more decorative than functional. You can call them "sword-like objects", but these daggers are significant as regalia or symbolic accouterments, such as European coronation swords or the "guom" sabers carried by Vietnamese military mandarins.

The concerns about authenticity are common to just about any other aspect of edged weapons collecting. How to tell the wheat from the chaff is something of growing importance in many fields (Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, to name a few) as the reproductions are ever more prevalent and in many cases have gotten more and more sophisticated.

Andrew · 11th January 2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

PC-ness can be taken too far; this is an edged weapons forum and Nazi daggers do have edges, and it's possible to discuss these without having to discuss Nazism (or any other political system) itself at a venue such as this.

Exactly. Thanks, Philip.

Dajak · 11th January 2007, 06:24 PM

Hi I only know that for the real old pieces with history paid realy high prices
starting 2 or 3 times more than than this one

Ben

Andrew · 16th January 2007, 05:05 AM

Let's get this discussion back on track, please.

Some things lend themselves more readily to discussion here than others. This does not, necessarily, mean we shouldn't discuss them; just that we should do so carefully and thoughtfully. Sometimes this can be difficult.

Personally, I don't care to even look at Nazi weapons, let alone discuss them. If I didn't moderate this forum, I wouldn't even read this thread.

CharlesS · 16th January 2007, 01:15 PM

Fernando and Andrew,

Fernando, if you will read my previous post more carefully you will find that it is not an attack on you, nor other collectors of Nazi militaria, nor is it any morality statement. It is the simple assertion that in my opinion that piece as well as other mass produced 20 Cent. pieces are better discussed on another site, and not here, for any number of different reasons. I believe you have misinterpreted some things I said as some sort of attack on you or others. It was not.

Andrew, my apologies if this is a thread 'gone amok', but I felt my statement needed clarification after Fernando's response. I hope to say no more about it.

11th January 2007, 05:55 AM	#1
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	Wehrmacht officers dagger Is this a genuine Wehrmacht Officer's Dagger? What do the experts on here think about the swords and knives on this site? Are they genuine and well priced ? http://www.wwii-collectibles.com/Mer...egory_Code=grm scroll down the page and check the next pages. He has lots of nazi knives and swords for sale. Last edited by fenlander; 11th January 2007 at 05:59 AM. Reason: changed web address

11th January 2007, 07:56 AM	#3
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	Thanks Good advice. I was a little surprised to see all those swords and daggers on the Internet, especially in that quality. I was worried about asking the question on this site as it is very politically incorrect to discuss nazi daggers and swords etc. However i do think from an aesthetic point of view they look great; but personally I can't believe they are genuine in that condition. Anyway you give great advice, thanks. Moderators please remove this post if it is offensive to any of your regulars. I won't be offended.

11th January 2007, 06:54 AM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	I don't know if Nazi daggers (like bayonets and other military edged implements massed-produced in an industrial setting) can be strictly called "ethnographic", but maybe somebody else can weigh in. This isn't my field of interest or expertise by a long shot, but I have friends who have been active in this area for decades, and I'd like to pass an important caveat along to you. This branch of collecting is loaded with fakes!!! Composite pieces and flat-out repros have been cranked out since the late 1950s in various countries, and each generation of fakes has gotten better and better. It's gotten to the point where you can't safely buy from pictures anymore unless you absolutely know and trust the seller. There is a considerable body of reference literature devoted to the problem of authenticity in Nazi daggers, and it's recommended that any collector study this religiously, and actually handle as many daggers as possible, before reaching for the checkbook. Anyway, this is what the 'pros' tell me and I hope that it saves you from flushing good money down the toilet on a bad piece.

11th January 2007, 08:35 AM	#4
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	PC-ness can be taken too far; this is an edged weapons forum and Nazi daggers do have edges, and it's possible to discuss these without having to discuss Nazism (or any other political system) itself at a venue such as this. Some folks might quibble about Nazi daggers and swords being "weapons" at all since they are for the most part more decorative than functional. You can call them "sword-like objects", but these daggers are significant as regalia or symbolic accouterments, such as European coronation swords or the "guom" sabers carried by Vietnamese military mandarins. The concerns about authenticity are common to just about any other aspect of edged weapons collecting. How to tell the wheat from the chaff is something of growing importance in many fields (Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, to name a few) as the reproductions are ever more prevalent and in many cases have gotten more and more sophisticated.

11th January 2007, 06:24 PM	#6
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi I only know that for the real old pieces with history paid realy high prices starting 2 or 3 times more than than this one Ben

16th January 2007, 05:05 AM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Let's get this discussion back on track, please. Some things lend themselves more readily to discussion here than others. This does not, necessarily, mean we shouldn't discuss them; just that we should do so carefully and thoughtfully. Sometimes this can be difficult. Personally, I don't care to even look at Nazi weapons, let alone discuss them. If I didn't moderate this forum, I wouldn't even read this thread.

16th January 2007, 01:15 PM	#8
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Fernando and Andrew, Fernando, if you will read my previous post more carefully you will find that it is not an attack on you, nor other collectors of Nazi militaria, nor is it any morality statement. It is the simple assertion that in my opinion that piece as well as other mass produced 20 Cent. pieces are better discussed on another site, and not here, for any number of different reasons. I believe you have misinterpreted some things I said as some sort of attack on you or others. It was not. Andrew, my apologies if this is a thread 'gone amok', but I felt my statement needed clarification after Fernando's response. I hope to say no more about it.