Questions about Tabar axe

[Drabant1701]

I have a large Tabar axe, 96 cm long. When i looked on the Internet for information about it I found an exampel that looks very much like mine: http://armsandantiques.com/huge-late...arzin-axe-i206
The only difference i can see is that theirs ha had the cutting edge grinded down around 1 cm.

I have no doubt that these are people how know what they are talking about, I would however like a second opinion as to age and origin, is it late 18th century and persian? If someone by chance can read the text on the axe I hope you can share with me what it says. On the side of the axe head there is a small mark (?) that looks like its been put there on purpose, I took a close up of it in case anyone seen that type of mark before, it could also be a repair or random flaw.

Thank you for your time.

[Blacksmith]

Hello, I have seen these kind of axes with different kind of blade styles and with same haft style and they werw all mentioned to be made for the Paris World Exhibition in the beginning of the 1900. So not made for the actuall use.

[Drabant1701]

Originally Posted by Blacksmith

Hello, I have seen these kind of axes with different kind of blade styles and with same haft style and they werw all mentioned to be made for the Paris World Exhibition in the beginning of the 1900. So not made for the actual use.

You are right about it not being for actual use. First of all its not sharpened. Second its to big and heavy to actually fight with, you could only strike once or twice before you got exhausted.

That it would have been made for the Paris exhibition is not impossible. I can see it being made as an export piece to europe and america in the mid to late 19 century, in the same matter that kula khuds and sipars shields where made for export. But Im really not experienced enough to date it accurate, that is why I ask for other opinions. Its not that the age matters, I like the axe anyway, but I like to catalog the items in my collection as correctly as possible

Some other reflections: If there are two identical, there are more out there.
A piece of the edge has broken of, and had probably done so on the other one to since the edge was grinded down. So its hard iron. If you where to chisel something that detailed that is only for display why choose iron that hard. It could be made of cast iron.

What strikes me as odd is that the decoration is asymmetrical in lot of places, its small details but if you look closely on top ad bottom the differences are quite obvious.

While researching i found a axe head in "Lexicon of arms and armor from Iran" by Manouchehr page 529. It shows an axe (see picture) that shares design features with this one. The odd pointy egg shape thing, the borders around the edges and the on the back. Its more similar on the reverse side (not in picture).

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

You are right about it not being for actual use. First of all its not sharpened. Second its to big and heavy to actually fight with, you could only strike once or twice before you got exhausted..........................Some other reflections: If there are two identical, there are more out there.

Your right, I have seen several very similar examples of these socketed axe, the ones that had a shaft all had a tassle attached near the top. I have also heard that they were used for some sort of display etc and may have actually been manufactured in Europe but I have no proof of this. Here is one that I have, it has been dipped / silvered in some way, very heavy and unsharpened.

[Drabant1701]

@Estcrh
Thanks for your replay. Your idea about them being made in europe made me look into other regions then Persia. I found a handful of battle axes that are said to be made in India with different heads but similar shaft construction. I found several on Herman historica and one on Ebay.


Although the decoration differs I think the style and construction looks very similar. This could indicate that the Tabar axes discussed in the thread is also from this indian region.

[ariel]

It is my impression that the idea of a relatively modern and/or souvenir origin of many Indian/ Indo-Persian examples of arms and armor traditionally attributed to 17-18 century is beginning to get firm hold ( at least here).

In the absense of reliable dating and established provenance we may have to give a fresh look at our collections and, certainly, at the items offered for sale, no matter what authorities pronounce their ancient origin.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

It is my impression that the idea of a relatively modern and/or souvenir origin of many Indian/ Indo-Persian examples of arms and armor traditionally attributed to 17-18 century is beginning to get firm hold ( at least here).

In the absense of reliable dating and established provenance we may have to give a fresh look at our collections and, certainly, at the items offered for sale, no matter what authorities pronounce their ancient origin.

There is no such thing as an "expert", some people just have a little more knowledge.

These types of socketed axe may not even be Indo-Persian, let alone Persian. This brings into question the method used to make them, are these actually chisled or was some other method used such as machining?

HUGE late 18th C. Persian Safavid Chiselled Tabarzin Axe. The largest of this type of axe I've seen. Very finely chiselled parade axehead, with fine chiselling throughout. This was likely a parade piece. The axehead is made in one piece with the metal part of the shaft or it was welded together at some point. The shaft appears to be a Victorian shaft made for this axe, and the entire piece was lacquered as well. The quality of the chiselling on the axehead is some of the best I've seen, and coupled with the size it's a one of a kind axe. See the comparison pictures with the normal sized axes for sale as well. Overall length is 38", axehead is 8" in length and 4" blade length.