9 Ring Broadsword

[Queequeg]

Can anyone give an explanation of the 9 rings on the spine of certain Chinese broadswords?

http://www.gungfu.com/pics-general/p...broadsword.jpg
http://cdn2.iofferphoto.com/img/item...X5kC1LkA0B.jpg

At first glance, these swords make me wonder how badly the rings would affect the cutting of things like limbs and torsos (they are weapons, after all). I can't think of any good purpose for having them, although many aspects of kung-fu are admittedly quite esoteric to me and I could well be missing some logical and tactically sensible aspect here.

This thread said that the rings help in parrying/blocking, but it seems like an awful lot of work and extravagance when one could make a slightly thicker spine, instead.

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi Queequeg,

Interesting and fanciful swords notions. I've always wondered if there was such an antique dao with 9 rings and why 9 appears in modern kungfu circles....what are they based on?? To me these items they speak of are only watery stage props.

You are right in what you say about blocking, why not just have a thicker spine.

Show me a genuine antique dao with nine rings and I'll offer a genuine reason for the rings being there ;-)

Gav

[Queequeg]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Queequeg,

Interesting and fanciful swords notions. I've always wondered if there was such an antique dao with 9 rings and why 9 appears in modern kungfu circles....what are they based on?? To me these items they speak of are only watery stage props.

You are right in what you say about blocking, why not just have a thicker spine.

Show me a genuine antique dao with nine rings and I'll offer a genuine reason for the rings being there ;-)

Gav

The one in the second photo I linked in the original post looks like it could either be an antique or a good repro.

Any ideas, then, because I sure don't have any.

[fearn]

I've heard several stories in kung fu schools.

The rings are meant to ring when you shake them, and I think the tradition of putting rings on swords goes back quite a ways. I remember seeing a description of a sword with something like three points, four rings, and five stars in the <i>Water Margin</i>. I don't know if that's in the original 16th Century version or if it is a more recent addition. I've also seen a description of a modern Miao or Hmong shaman using a sword shaped rattle in a ritual. There are similar traditions of gold coin swords in feng shui and peach wood swords in Taoist exorcisms.

The question for the nine rings is context, whether it's meant to be rung in religious dramas, or whether it's meant to be rung in a street performance to be more dramatic. My bet is both. Kungfu, like capoeira and Pentjak-Silat, has a performance branch (wushu) as well as a martial branch (guoshu), and I think the nine rings swords belong squarely in the performance arena.

Best,

F

[Neil]

This type of sword is mentioned by Philip in the following post as a street performers tool.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=boxer

I think the example in the second picture is a modern reproduction.

I also think there is a lot of misinformation abound in modern Chinese martial art circles about the reality of historic weaponry. I have been personally trying to unravel this puzzle for my own understanding as one such martial artist for a long time. The problem is there seems to be somewhat of an institution of misinformation related to magazine publications and kung fu books etc. versus much credible scholarship. For the record I want to say how much I appreciate this forum as a venue to see and discuss real Chinese historic arms.

[Neil]

Thought this might be thought provoking as well.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Neil

Thought this might be thought provoking as well.

A good image Neil but that ring is for suspension, as Philip has also noted, a strap was run between it and the ring pommel and slung over the shoulder like a rifle.

Gav