Restoration Workshop Library.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th June 2011, 07:25 PM

Jim McDougall

Salaams,
The Forum has some excellent restoration projects which have been carried out most professionally and up to museum standard. May I suggest that we put together an A to Z of restoration equipment techniques and proceedures with all the majical hints and ideas that so many of the forum experts have; so that we can have an ongoing library that members can log into. Not everyone knows for example how to use lemon salt or aluminium baking foil to remove rust spots nor may they be aware of the latest wax or polish on the market for just that restoration task.
How to restore wootz for example?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Jens Nordlunde · 30th June 2011, 05:53 PM

I find this a good idea, I do however have a few buts.
One is, that some of the more experienced collectors use strong chemicals, which can not be recommended to less experienced collectors. Another is that restoration of a weapon, although it is very individual how it is made from collector to collector, is likely to be made more 'brutal' when made by an inexperienced collector.
This would mean that the posts would have to be classified like recommendable, be careful and so on, and who would do that?
Jens

Jim McDougall · 30th June 2011, 06:24 PM

Hi Ibrahiim,
I think this is an outstanding idea!

While personally extremely conservative on the restoration of weapons, I think there are times when a very worn and damaged weapon is deserving of such attention to return it to a reasonable status quo. It seems these kinds of questions come up often enought that perhaps an organized system for recommended handling and workable tips might be beneficial. I think this would serve well to emplace certain caveats as well, in response to Jens well placed note......the very last thing we want to see is weapons damaged or compromised by poorly applied treatments, so the use of this specialized area would hopefully prevent such things.

Looking forward to further input and suggestions on facilitating this idea.

All best regards,
Jim

A.alnakkas · 30th June 2011, 09:16 PM

Excellent idea, i very much agree! Many experienced people here have tried to teach me how to etch but its not that easy to learn or to sum up the courage to do something that may damage an item.

I think the best idea is to actually make a video of the etching process, with detailed pictures of each material to be used and even whats NOT to use. Such a video will save time and precious weapons alot more then textual education i believe, one also must put in mind that even though the majority of us speak english fluently, it is still not "easy" for most of us to fully understand a lesson textually especially without images/vids.

kahnjar1 · 1st July 2011, 08:17 AM

Whilst I agree with Ibrahiim, that a "library of restoration" is a good idea and maybe warrants a "Sticky" if it progresses that far, I believe that one needs to define "restoration" before anything is put together.
To me restoration is NOT returning an item to NEW condition. What we collect in most cases is HISTORY and that can very easily be destroyed by careless use of such things as grinding wheels, and replacement of old parts with new. IMHO that is doing nothing but creating a REPLICA of the original.
By all means clean off rust etc., and repair broken parts, but to UNNECESSARILY replace with NEW parts in my opinion is destructive.

Gavin Nugent · 1st July 2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

UNNECESSARILY replace with NEW parts in my opinion is destructive.

Stu,

I think this phrase should be taken in context and case by case.
A little while back I had a unique and prize jian fully restored for a client.
It was in pieces and lacked the correct guard. Now it has replaced hilt timbers, antiqued ray skin and new aged guard with the same patina as the rest of the sword and is one of the most stunning Jian I have laid eyes on.

Without this process of NEW parts, to sum it up, it would be a pig and unusable or appreciated.

Gav

ThePepperSkull · 18th July 2011, 05:10 AM

Quick question about maintaining old wooden hilts.

I have an old kris whose handle "drinks" up any moisture my hand lets up on it. The patina is beautiful and i do not want to affect it or change it potentially with any kind of artificial finish, but I do want to make sure that this piece outlives me by ages and to do that I would like to maintain the handle somehow. It does not have that old wood smell, but rather smells a little musty like it has not been cared for.

All I've done to it was clean it with a toothbrush and mineral spirits, then added a very very light coat of Tru-oil (Which I believe is primarily boiled Linseed Oil) diluted with more mineral spirits to better penetrate the wood. I applied this finish with a cotton cloth.

It still looks its age and I'm not looking to shine it up at all (Rather I would like to keep it as it is -- a satin/matte finish -- as opposed to adding an overly glossy/glass-like finish), but I feel as if more should be done to it to ensure that it is preserved, as the wood still rapidly "drinks" up any moisture it encounters from my hand when compared to other pieces I have.

Should I apply more coats of oil? Would using 00000 Steel Wool be appripriate for this old wood? I do not want to remove any of the patina, just preserve it as best I can without damaging or changing how it looks.

(Photos are courtesy of Erik Farrow, who I acquired this particular piece from. the handle looks the same currently, but after the toothbrush and mineral spirits the dust from the crevices are gone.)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 18th July 2011, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Quick question about maintaining old wooden hilts.

I have an old kris whose handle "drinks" up any moisture my hand lets up on it. The patina is beautiful and i do not want to affect it or change it potentially with any kind of artificial finish, but I do want to make sure that this piece outlives me by ages and to do that I would like to maintain the handle somehow. It does not have that old wood smell, but rather smells a little musty like it has not been cared for.

All I've done to it was clean it with a toothbrush and mineral spirits, then added a very very light coat of Tru-oil (Which I believe is primarily boiled Linseed Oil) diluted with more mineral spirits to better penetrate the wood. I applied this finish with a cotton cloth.

It still looks its age and I'm not looking to shine it up at all (Rather I would like to keep it as it is -- a satin/matte finish -- as opposed to adding an overly glossy/glass-like finish), but I feel as if more should be done to it to ensure that it is preserved, as the wood still rapidly "drinks" up any moisture it encounters from my hand when compared to other pieces I have.

Should I apply more coats of oil? Would using 00000 Steel Wool be appripriate for this old wood? I do not want to remove any of the patina, just preserve it as best I can without damaging or changing how it looks.

(Photos are courtesy of Erik Farrow, who I acquired this particular piece from. the handle looks the same currently, but after the toothbrush and mineral spirits the dust from the crevices are gone.)

Salaams~ This is exactly the sort of question that this forum..with the benefit a restoration section ... could fully advise, answer and follow up. ~

Peperskull that looks like a lovely old weapon and I would be reluctant to do much to it... you will find 0000 steel wool will bring out the grain(though as I say I wouldnt bother it looks great) and for me the occasional linseed action would do nicely. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

ThePepperSkull · 18th July 2011, 08:50 AM

Thank you for the compliments, Ibrahiim.

In that case I think I will leave as is. It already looks a bit different. The dust has been cleaned out but I tried to be the least invasive possible. Used an old soft bristle toothbrush to clean the crevices and did not use any abrasives like steel wool or sandpaper. Just a cotton cloth with some tru-oil that's been diluted with mineral spirits. My goal is not to bring out a shiny or glassy surface, rather just maintain it in its current condition as much as possible. The patina and darkened (exposed) and lighter areas (Where the hilt wrapping and former fittings used to be) are still distinct.

My only concern is the amount of moisture this wood still absorbs. I want to give it a few more coats of oil to fill the grain, but am not sure how this will affect the patina. As it is, I think it is well preserved, but like I said it "drinks" up the moisture from my hand fairly quickly still.

Would a coat of Renaissance Wax help keep a reasonably safe barrier against moisture and further deterioration or should I keep oiling it till the grain is filled? If I oil it, will that affect the patina it has built?

EDIT- Here is a pic of the entire kris in the condition I recieved it:

kai · 19th July 2011, 02:48 AM

Hi TPS,

Quote:

My only concern is the amount of moisture this wood still absorbs. I want to give it a few more coats of oil to fill the grain, but am not sure how this will affect the patina. As it is, I think it is well preserved, but like I said it "drinks" up the moisture from my hand fairly quickly still.

Would a coat of Renaissance Wax help keep a reasonably safe barrier against moisture and further deterioration or should I keep oiling it till the grain is filled?

Wax would help but also tend to give a glossy finish. I agree that repeated oiling the hilt over an extended period is preferable, especially if you're from a low-humidity climate. Just make sure to work in little amounts by intensive rubbing with your hands and don't forget to remove any excess after each session, especially from the crevices. Undiluted linseed oil is great for this but you can also apply boiled linseed oil or some other hardening oil (each formula will need some adapting). I avoid mineral oil on wood or other organic materials. None of these will affect genuine patina though - the only backdrop with utilizing natural oils is that they can favor mold in high-humidity climates if not regularly handled.

The hilt of your kris looks nice and old but I do wonder why it has so open pores - the usual antique bunti doesn't absorb a lot of moisture nor oil.

I'm afraid the ferrule/clamp construction seems dubious to me. I'd guess it's either not antique or not done by traditional Moro craftsmen (or both). Also the "fit" of the hilt on the blade looks weird with the missing katik - I'd love to examine it disassembled to verify wether these ever were intended to go together (and just got compromised by later wood shrinkage/etc.) or wether this happens to be a "forced marriage"...

Regards,
Kai

ThePepperSkull · 19th July 2011, 05:07 AM

Thanks for the advice and kind words, kai.

The wood on this was different than other kris I have handled in that it was not maintained very well. It was expremely dry when it came to me and smelled different than typical Bunti hilts. It did not simply smell old to me, rather it smelt overly musty in addition to smelling older. I suspect its "thirst" is due to its lack of care/maintenance through the years.

In terms of th handle, I agree! I don't think anyone could argue about the dubiousness of its current construction. Definitely not traditional moro. The makeshift clamp (I would be wary of calling it a proper asang-asang since it has no similarity to a proper asang-asang aside from function) is thin sheet brass as opposed to a thick clamp. It is the same thickness as the brass ferrule on the handle.

I believe both the ferrule and clamp to be something of a hasty repair. It was most likely done after the katik had broken off and the original asang-asang was lost. Definitely not typical moro construction, but I suspect it may have been done (In haste) by a moro who had limited repair tools, seeing as there is a clamp of some sort (Now this is just conjecture on my part-- but I suspect that if it were repaired in haste by someone outside of moro culture, the blade would simply have been glued or epoxied to the handle, maybe pinned as well, as opposed to being epoxied/clamped). Albeit the current clamp is not the prettiest.

As far as the wood hilt is concerned, I believe that it's original to the piece. The tang at the opening of the hilt fits very nicely and there is no sign IMO of it being being too loose a fit (No 'empty' space between the tang and hilt opening for additional shimming to tighten the fit or for extra epoxy filler). There ARE however, cracks at the opening that extende to the areas of the hilt were the cracks are visible in the pictures. I suspect that these cracks formed later due to wood shrinkage like you mentioned.

The construction of complete similar pieces to this were far FAR different, with there being a proper asang-asang attatched to metal fittings on the hilt and bound to the hilt with metal wire. It's hard to explain, but I will post pictures to better articulate what I mean about what I believe its original construction looked like.

Here is a couple of complete kris handles with the kind of construction I believe my kris was originally made to look like before its damage and repair. Note the metal wire binding and the asang-asang being attatched to the brass fitting near the kakatua pommel via more metal wires:

Rick · 20th July 2011, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Quick question about maintaining old wooden hilts.

I have an old kris whose handle "drinks" up any moisture my hand lets up on it. The patina is beautiful and i do not want to affect it or change it potentially with any kind of artificial finish, but I do want to make sure that this piece outlives me by ages and to do that I would like to maintain the handle somehow. It does not have that old wood smell, but rather smells a little musty like it has not been cared for.

All I've done to it was clean it with a toothbrush and mineral spirits, then added a very very light coat of Tru-oil (Which I believe is primarily boiled Linseed Oil) diluted with more mineral spirits to better penetrate the wood. I applied this finish with a cotton cloth.

It still looks its age and I'm not looking to shine it up at all (Rather I would like to keep it as it is -- a satin/matte finish -- as opposed to adding an overly glossy/glass-like finish), but I feel as if more should be done to it to ensure that it is preserved, as the wood still rapidly "drinks" up any moisture it encounters from my hand when compared to other pieces I have.

Should I apply more coats of oil? Would using 00000 Steel Wool be appripriate for this old wood? I do not want to remove any of the patina, just preserve it as best I can without damaging or changing how it looks.

(Photos are courtesy of Erik Farrow, who I acquired this particular piece from. the handle looks the same currently, but after the toothbrush and mineral spirits the dust from the crevices are gone.)

You may have removed old lime accents that have discolored over time .

ThePepperSkull · 20th July 2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

You may have removed old lime accents that have discolored over time .

This is why I should have waited before I did anything

kai · 20th July 2011, 11:28 PM

Hello Rick,

Quote:

You may have removed old lime accents that have discolored over time .

I can't see any hints for lime accents on this kris hilt - looks like genuine dirt to me from the before pics. Lime is not that rare on kampilan pommels and guards (away from the gripping area); I doubt that lime would last for any reasonable period on small kris hilts though...

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 21st July 2011, 01:43 AM

Okay Kai .
Now, what about moving forward with what you Gentlemen wish for .

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st July 2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Okay Kai .
Now, what about moving forward with what you Gentlemen wish for .

Salaams,
Thankyou. I agree that this requires a forum members input solution backed and supported by moderator staff.

Thinking aloud~ I see initially a sticky to carry the concepts onto an alphabetical index. I suggest that this is such a good idea that access should only be to forum members and in a way this would attract non members to join. It is therefor a marketing tool in addition to being an excellent aspect of the forum site.

Personally I believe strongly in the restoration workshop idea because it is continuous and always therefor being updated and relies upon everyone to input. It is therefor live and current and underlines the live debate and continuous interchange of ideas in our Forum. I strongly suggest that a general e mail to all members introducing this quite vital and lively restoration workshop library be sent ..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

RDGAC · 28th September 2011, 12:19 PM

Sorry to perform a bit of Thread Necromancy, everyone, but what's the score on this idea? Have there been discussions; has any progress been made? For what it's worth, I like the concept a lot; it'd be a shame if it faded into the background again.

rickystl · 28th September 2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDGAC

Sorry to perform a bit of Thread Necromancy, everyone, but what's the score on this idea? Have there been discussions; has any progress been made? For what it's worth, I like the concept a lot; it'd be a shame if it faded into the background again.

I second these thoughts. I hope this comes to fruition. Thanks, Rick.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th September 2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

I second these thoughts. I hope this comes to fruition. Thanks, Rick.

Salaams, Im certain that everyone agrees and even if it was an alphabetical Index which forumites could add to gradually ~ later it could be expanded. I would wager that most items appearing in the forum have had some form of restoration work applied even basic cleaning and oiling... I feel that a simple "add to index" would take the strain off moderator involvement. This could even just be a thread.. Look at Jims thread on blade marks ... its collosal in terms of readership and importance to the forum... Why not just open another what I would term Superthread called Restoration... and see how that fills up...?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

RDGAC · 3rd October 2011, 02:54 PM

Second that suggestion. The thread could simply be an index, to which members would be trusted to add useful links. Moderator involvement would still be necessary in order to incorporate the various sub-threads into a Table of Contents in the first post, but if the members post links in the body of the threads itself then not only is the workload of the Mods considerably reduced (owing to the links' concentration therein), but any suggestions which don't make the ToC are still easily located by those seeking them.

Best,

Meredydd

laEspadaAncha · 7th October 2011, 02:26 AM

I look forward to benefitting form this repository of knowledge, and graciously thank those who have committed their time to this effort.

Would this thread be the best place to make suggestions for the consideration of the members working on this project? I am sure there are many of us who, while not involved in this project, might have suggestions pertaining to content or structure that would add value...

29th June 2011, 07:25 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Restoration Workshop Library. Jim McDougall Salaams, The Forum has some excellent restoration projects which have been carried out most professionally and up to museum standard. May I suggest that we put together an A to Z of restoration equipment techniques and proceedures with all the majical hints and ideas that so many of the forum experts have; so that we can have an ongoing library that members can log into. Not everyone knows for example how to use lemon salt or aluminium baking foil to remove rust spots nor may they be aware of the latest wax or polish on the market for just that restoration task. How to restore wootz for example? Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 29th June 2011 at 07:30 PM. Reason: text

1st July 2011, 08:17 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Care Please Whilst I agree with Ibrahiim, that a "library of restoration" is a good idea and maybe warrants a "Sticky" if it progresses that far, I believe that one needs to define "restoration" before anything is put together. To me restoration is NOT returning an item to NEW condition. What we collect in most cases is HISTORY and that can very easily be destroyed by careless use of such things as grinding wheels, and replacement of old parts with new. IMHO that is doing nothing but creating a REPLICA of the original. By all means clean off rust etc., and repair broken parts, but to UNNECESSARILY replace with NEW parts in my opinion is destructive.

18th July 2011, 05:10 AM	#7
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Quick question about maintaining old wooden hilts. I have an old kris whose handle "drinks" up any moisture my hand lets up on it. The patina is beautiful and i do not want to affect it or change it potentially with any kind of artificial finish, but I do want to make sure that this piece outlives me by ages and to do that I would like to maintain the handle somehow. It does not have that old wood smell, but rather smells a little musty like it has not been cared for. All I've done to it was clean it with a toothbrush and mineral spirits, then added a very very light coat of Tru-oil (Which I believe is primarily boiled Linseed Oil) diluted with more mineral spirits to better penetrate the wood. I applied this finish with a cotton cloth. It still looks its age and I'm not looking to shine it up at all (Rather I would like to keep it as it is -- a satin/matte finish -- as opposed to adding an overly glossy/glass-like finish), but I feel as if more should be done to it to ensure that it is preserved, as the wood still rapidly "drinks" up any moisture it encounters from my hand when compared to other pieces I have. Should I apply more coats of oil? Would using 00000 Steel Wool be appripriate for this old wood? I do not want to remove any of the patina, just preserve it as best I can without damaging or changing how it looks. (Photos are courtesy of Erik Farrow, who I acquired this particular piece from. the handle looks the same currently, but after the toothbrush and mineral spirits the dust from the crevices are gone.) Attached Images

18th July 2011, 08:50 AM	#9
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thank you for the compliments, Ibrahiim. In that case I think I will leave as is. It already looks a bit different. The dust has been cleaned out but I tried to be the least invasive possible. Used an old soft bristle toothbrush to clean the crevices and did not use any abrasives like steel wool or sandpaper. Just a cotton cloth with some tru-oil that's been diluted with mineral spirits. My goal is not to bring out a shiny or glassy surface, rather just maintain it in its current condition as much as possible. The patina and darkened (exposed) and lighter areas (Where the hilt wrapping and former fittings used to be) are still distinct. My only concern is the amount of moisture this wood still absorbs. I want to give it a few more coats of oil to fill the grain, but am not sure how this will affect the patina. As it is, I think it is well preserved, but like I said it "drinks" up the moisture from my hand fairly quickly still. Would a coat of Renaissance Wax help keep a reasonably safe barrier against moisture and further deterioration or should I keep oiling it till the grain is filled? If I oil it, will that affect the patina it has built? EDIT- Here is a pic of the entire kris in the condition I recieved it: Attached Images Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 19th July 2011 at 05:42 AM.

19th July 2011, 05:07 AM	#11
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thanks for the advice and kind words, kai. The wood on this was different than other kris I have handled in that it was not maintained very well. It was expremely dry when it came to me and smelled different than typical Bunti hilts. It did not simply smell old to me, rather it smelt overly musty in addition to smelling older. I suspect its "thirst" is due to its lack of care/maintenance through the years. In terms of th handle, I agree! I don't think anyone could argue about the dubiousness of its current construction. Definitely not traditional moro. The makeshift clamp (I would be wary of calling it a proper asang-asang since it has no similarity to a proper asang-asang aside from function) is thin sheet brass as opposed to a thick clamp. It is the same thickness as the brass ferrule on the handle. I believe both the ferrule and clamp to be something of a hasty repair. It was most likely done after the katik had broken off and the original asang-asang was lost. Definitely not typical moro construction, but I suspect it may have been done (In haste) by a moro who had limited repair tools, seeing as there is a clamp of some sort (Now this is just conjecture on my part-- but I suspect that if it were repaired in haste by someone outside of moro culture, the blade would simply have been glued or epoxied to the handle, maybe pinned as well, as opposed to being epoxied/clamped). Albeit the current clamp is not the prettiest. As far as the wood hilt is concerned, I believe that it's original to the piece. The tang at the opening of the hilt fits very nicely and there is no sign IMO of it being being too loose a fit (No 'empty' space between the tang and hilt opening for additional shimming to tighten the fit or for extra epoxy filler). There ARE however, cracks at the opening that extende to the areas of the hilt were the cracks are visible in the pictures. I suspect that these cracks formed later due to wood shrinkage like you mentioned. The construction of complete similar pieces to this were far FAR different, with there being a proper asang-asang attatched to metal fittings on the hilt and bound to the hilt with metal wire. It's hard to explain, but I will post pictures to better articulate what I mean about what I believe its original construction looked like. Here is a couple of complete kris handles with the kind of construction I believe my kris was originally made to look like before its damage and repair. Note the metal wire binding and the asang-asang being attatched to the brass fitting near the kakatua pommel via more metal wires: Attached Images Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 19th July 2011 at 10:03 AM.

30th June 2011, 05:53 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I find this a good idea, I do however have a few buts. One is, that some of the more experienced collectors use strong chemicals, which can not be recommended to less experienced collectors. Another is that restoration of a weapon, although it is very individual how it is made from collector to collector, is likely to be made more 'brutal' when made by an inexperienced collector. This would mean that the posts would have to be classified like recommendable, be careful and so on, and who would do that? Jens

30th June 2011, 06:24 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Hi Ibrahiim, I think this is an outstanding idea! While personally extremely conservative on the restoration of weapons, I think there are times when a very worn and damaged weapon is deserving of such attention to return it to a reasonable status quo. It seems these kinds of questions come up often enought that perhaps an organized system for recommended handling and workable tips might be beneficial. I think this would serve well to emplace certain caveats as well, in response to Jens well placed note......the very last thing we want to see is weapons damaged or compromised by poorly applied treatments, so the use of this specialized area would hopefully prevent such things. Looking forward to further input and suggestions on facilitating this idea. All best regards, Jim

30th June 2011, 09:16 PM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Excellent idea, i very much agree! Many experienced people here have tried to teach me how to etch but its not that easy to learn or to sum up the courage to do something that may damage an item. I think the best idea is to actually make a video of the etching process, with detailed pictures of each material to be used and even whats NOT to use. Such a video will save time and precious weapons alot more then textual education i believe, one also must put in mind that even though the majority of us speak english fluently, it is still not "easy" for most of us to fully understand a lesson textually especially without images/vids.

21st July 2011, 01:43 AM	#15
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Okay Kai . Now, what about moving forward with what you Gentlemen wish for .

28th September 2011, 12:19 PM	#17
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Sorry to perform a bit of Thread Necromancy, everyone, but what's the score on this idea? Have there been discussions; has any progress been made? For what it's worth, I like the concept a lot; it'd be a shame if it faded into the background again.

3rd October 2011, 02:54 PM	#20
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Second that suggestion. The thread could simply be an index, to which members would be trusted to add useful links. Moderator involvement would still be necessary in order to incorporate the various sub-threads into a Table of Contents in the first post, but if the members post links in the body of the threads itself then not only is the workload of the Mods considerably reduced (owing to the links' concentration therein), but any suggestions which don't make the ToC are still easily located by those seeking them. Best, Meredydd

7th October 2011, 02:26 AM	#21
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	I look forward to benefitting form this repository of knowledge, and graciously thank those who have committed their time to this effort. Would this thread be the best place to make suggestions for the consideration of the members working on this project? I am sure there are many of us who, while not involved in this project, might have suggestions pertaining to content or structure that would add value...