Kindjal Information Request

BBJW · 14th August 2009, 11:43 PM

Any information on this kindjal would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
bbjw

TVV · 15th August 2009, 07:51 AM

I always have a very hard time distinguishing between kindjals from the various regions and ethnicities in the Caucasus, but I am going to make a guess this one is from Dagestan. Now I can sit back and wait for those with far better knowledge to provide a more accurate identification.

One thing is certain though - this is a very nice, authentic kindjal, even if a little on the small side (children's?).

Regards,
Teodor

BBJW · 16th August 2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

I always have a very hard time distinguishing between kindjals from the various regions and ethnicities in the Caucasus, but I am going to make a guess this one is from Dagestan. Now I can sit back and wait for those with far better knowledge to provide a more accurate identification.

One thing is certain though - this is a very nice, authentic kindjal, even if a little on the small side (children's?).

Regards,
Teodor

Small? Those are inches not mm/cm.

cheers
bbjw

TVV · 16th August 2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBJW

Small? Those are inches not mm/cm.

cheers
bbjw

I thought they were cm - thanks for the correction.

ariel · 17th August 2009, 01:43 AM

Teodor is correct: after ~1860, when the Caucasus was "pacified" by the Russians, there was mass movement of masters from their native aouls to larger centers: Tiflis, Vladikavkaz etc. Several large workshops were established and employed 30-50 masters. Some made their own blades, some "imported" them from individual bladesmiths. Zinaida Koshtayantz, for example, bought most of the blades made by the famous Chechen master Chilla. Omarov, Guzunov, Mudunov etc. bought from every place and made their own using steelplates from Russia and/or old railroad car springs.
Since the military reason for wearing kindjals ( or shashkas) was largely lost, they became decorative objects and were manufactured according to the buyer's specifications and/or the prevailing fashion. Masters working under the same roof learned and utilized other peoples' ornaments. Thus, one has difficulty claiming, for example, that a particular kindjal is Circassian or Daghestani.
Some things, however, remained. South Georgian ( Gurian, Meghrelian) kindjal were very pecuiar, with very wide blades, square pommels and iron-clad scabbards. Blades from Bol'shie ( Starye) Atagi ( Great or Old Atagi) were largely flat and had incised arabesques. Etc, etc.
A reasonable way to pinpointing the origin is to look at the assaying stamp: they were special for different centers. However, in the best Caucasian tradition, no master wanted to pay taxes; thus, it was estimated that ~2/3 of all kindjals were made and sold "under the table"
This one has the stamp and the fullers that are charactersitic of a Western Georgian ( Kutaisi?) manufacture, but the silverwork is made in the Armenian style: flat niello. Armenians were the predominant "sword fitters", but whether an Armenian made this one, is unknown.
I am almost sure it has no assay marks. The quality of the silverwork is mediocre, the kindjal was unlikely to be made for a rich Russian tourist., but rather for a local ( and, traditionally, poor) man.
Good one.

14th August 2009, 11:43 PM	#1
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 228	Kindjal Information Request Any information on this kindjal would be greatly appreciated. Thank you bbjw Attached Images

17th August 2009, 01:43 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Teodor is correct: after ~1860, when the Caucasus was "pacified" by the Russians, there was mass movement of masters from their native aouls to larger centers: Tiflis, Vladikavkaz etc. Several large workshops were established and employed 30-50 masters. Some made their own blades, some "imported" them from individual bladesmiths. Zinaida Koshtayantz, for example, bought most of the blades made by the famous Chechen master Chilla. Omarov, Guzunov, Mudunov etc. bought from every place and made their own using steelplates from Russia and/or old railroad car springs. Since the military reason for wearing kindjals ( or shashkas) was largely lost, they became decorative objects and were manufactured according to the buyer's specifications and/or the prevailing fashion. Masters working under the same roof learned and utilized other peoples' ornaments. Thus, one has difficulty claiming, for example, that a particular kindjal is Circassian or Daghestani. Some things, however, remained. South Georgian ( Gurian, Meghrelian) kindjal were very pecuiar, with very wide blades, square pommels and iron-clad scabbards. Blades from Bol'shie ( Starye) Atagi ( Great or Old Atagi) were largely flat and had incised arabesques. Etc, etc. A reasonable way to pinpointing the origin is to look at the assaying stamp: they were special for different centers. However, in the best Caucasian tradition, no master wanted to pay taxes; thus, it was estimated that ~2/3 of all kindjals were made and sold "under the table" This one has the stamp and the fullers that are charactersitic of a Western Georgian ( Kutaisi?) manufacture, but the silverwork is made in the Armenian style: flat niello. Armenians were the predominant "sword fitters", but whether an Armenian made this one, is unknown. I am almost sure it has no assay marks. The quality of the silverwork is mediocre, the kindjal was unlikely to be made for a rich Russian tourist., but rather for a local ( and, traditionally, poor) man. Good one. Last edited by ariel; 17th August 2009 at 02:58 AM.

15th August 2009, 07:51 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	I always have a very hard time distinguishing between kindjals from the various regions and ethnicities in the Caucasus, but I am going to make a guess this one is from Dagestan. Now I can sit back and wait for those with far better knowledge to provide a more accurate identification. One thing is certain though - this is a very nice, authentic kindjal, even if a little on the small side (children's?). Regards, Teodor