SHASHKA for Comment and ID

kahnjar1 · 18th February 2020, 03:46 AM

I recently picked up this Shashka which I think is Caucasian. This earlier thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=shashka ,attempts to identify where the particular styles come from.
Referring to the feature ID shown at Post#71 of this thread, it would appear that mine is Caucasian BUT it has features which do not tie in with that given.
Suspension is blade edge DOWN rather than up and of course with the silver covered hilt, it is not possible to see how many rivets are present.
There are no markings on the blade BUT the letters A.C. are stamped into the hilt as shown.
Any information as to origin, and any comments are very welcome.
Stu

ariel · 18th February 2020, 05:01 AM

The “edge down” is not characteristic of Caucasian origin, more like Turkish.
The decoration of the handle is not something I have seen on Caucasian either. Moreover, the handle and the details of the scabbard do not match. Both suspension ring part and the chape are made of silver while the handle is of a different materiel, and the throat is of yet another one. The existing scabbard parts are decorated in niello of Circassian style ( it does not prove their Circassian origin: this style was copied extensively) and the handle I cannot say what is the materiel of the scabbard cover, but it is not customary leather
Usually, the width of the blade is the same as the lower quillon; this one is much more slender and the juncture between the two seems to be worked on rather extensively.

I think it is a combination of different parts and the age is uncertain, but the entire object might have been assembled well after shashkas as fighting swords went out of use. Conceivably, scabbard parts were placed upside down during the assembly.

In brief, a highly isuspicious object and I do not like it.

kahnjar1 · 18th February 2020, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The “edge down” is not characteristic of Caucasian origin, more like Turkish.
The decoration of the handle is not something I have seen on Caucasian either. Moreover, the handle and the details of the scabbard do not match. Both suspension ring part and the chape are made of silver while the handle is of a different materiel, and the throat is of yet another one. The existing scabbard parts are decorated in niello of Circassian style ( it does not prove their Circassian origin: this style was copied extensively) and the handle I cannot say what is the materiel of the scabbard cover, but it is not customary leather
Usually, the width of the blade is the same as the lower quillon; this one is much more slender and the juncture between the two seems to be worked on rather extensively.

I think it is a combination of different parts and the age is uncertain, but the entire object might have been assembled well after shashkas as fighting swords went out of use. Conceivably, scabbard parts were placed upside down during the assembly.

In brief, a highly isuspicious object and I do not like it.

Thank you Ariel for your comments....I agree regarding the scabbard not matching the sword hilt, and having a mix of fittings. I suppose it is also possible that at some stage that the two could have been miss-matched. It also appears that it is likely to have been recovered at some stage.
However it is the sword itself that interests me, and it is the origin of that which i would like to establish. The sword handle is silver by the way.
Stu

kahnjar1 · 20th February 2020, 12:15 AM

To clarify what I am trying to establish, herewith is a pic of the sword without the scabbard (which has been correctly described as a "bitser").
The handle is silver and is decorated extensively. As can be seen from the other pics, the handle is of the "eared" type, and has the letters A.C stamped into it. So can anyone please tell me if this sword is Caucasian, Khyber or Bukhara, or some other type.
Stu

Ren Ren · 20th February 2020, 12:44 AM

This sword, without reservation, is Caucasian. I really like his hilt. I saw exactly the same thing at the Russian Ethnographic Museum in St. Petersburg. I think this handle is made in Tiflis, Georgia. The letters AC are the hallmark of the Assay Chamber inspector.

kahnjar1 · 20th February 2020, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

This sword, without reservation, is Caucasian. I really like his hilt. I saw exactly the same thing at the Russian Ethnographic Museum in St. Petersburg. I think this handle is made in Tiflis, Georgia. The letters AC are the hallmark of the Assay Chamber inspector.

Thank you very much Ren. Just the information I was seeking.
Stu

18th February 2020, 03:46 AM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	SHASHKA for Comment and ID I recently picked up this Shashka which I think is Caucasian. This earlier thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=shashka ,attempts to identify where the particular styles come from. Referring to the feature ID shown at Post#71 of this thread, it would appear that mine is Caucasian BUT it has features which do not tie in with that given. Suspension is blade edge DOWN rather than up and of course with the silver covered hilt, it is not possible to see how many rivets are present. There are no markings on the blade BUT the letters A.C. are stamped into the hilt as shown. Any information as to origin, and any comments are very welcome. Stu Attached Images

18th February 2020, 05:01 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The “edge down” is not characteristic of Caucasian origin, more like Turkish. The decoration of the handle is not something I have seen on Caucasian either. Moreover, the handle and the details of the scabbard do not match. Both suspension ring part and the chape are made of silver while the handle is of a different materiel, and the throat is of yet another one. The existing scabbard parts are decorated in niello of Circassian style ( it does not prove their Circassian origin: this style was copied extensively) and the handle I cannot say what is the materiel of the scabbard cover, but it is not customary leather Usually, the width of the blade is the same as the lower quillon; this one is much more slender and the juncture between the two seems to be worked on rather extensively. I think it is a combination of different parts and the age is uncertain, but the entire object might have been assembled well after shashkas as fighting swords went out of use. Conceivably, scabbard parts were placed upside down during the assembly. In brief, a highly isuspicious object and I do not like it. Last edited by ariel; 18th February 2020 at 05:19 AM.

20th February 2020, 12:15 AM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Shashka Origin??? To clarify what I am trying to establish, herewith is a pic of the sword without the scabbard (which has been correctly described as a "bitser"). The handle is silver and is decorated extensively. As can be seen from the other pics, the handle is of the "eared" type, and has the letters A.C stamped into it. So can anyone please tell me if this sword is Caucasian, Khyber or Bukhara, or some other type. Stu Attached Images

20th February 2020, 12:44 AM	#5
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 374	This sword, without reservation, is Caucasian. I really like his hilt. I saw exactly the same thing at the Russian Ethnographic Museum in St. Petersburg. I think this handle is made in Tiflis, Georgia. The letters AC are the hallmark of the Assay Chamber inspector.