![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
|
![]()
could you identify what is written on this Japanese naginata blade.I do not know if the photo is the right way ..
thank you in advance |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
|
![]()
I hope to save this blade by polishing it ???
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
![]()
Hello,
The writting is very crude and the shape, albeit very similar, is not of a typical naginata. So I suspect it is a Chinese blade. You may want to join the Nihonto Message Board and use their forum as they are very knowledgeable about Japanese blades. Good luck! Marius |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
![]() Quote:
Below are some examples I have, the blade is in very bad condition as you can see but it looks nothing like the one being discussed. I think some better, more detailed images may help. Last edited by estcrh; 17th October 2017 at 04:04 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
|
![]()
Detailed photos
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
Eric,
Please notice multiple pittings, some of which are quite deep . Thus, perfect polish will remove at least 1-2, maybe more, mm from each side of the entire blade. Whatever “damascus” picture was present, will likely be removed or significantly distorted. No serious Nihonto buff will be impressed by the final result. We easily accept virtually any “Islamic” blade with superficial defects, patches of discoloration, occasional forging flaws etc, but the attitude of the guy from Lee’s story is typical for serious Nihonto collectors. Their acceptability criteria are just different. They are a breed apart. The only other type of collectors who are somewhat approaching this level of perfectionism are “ wootz” collectors: witness Fiegel’s sorrowful comments on occasional microscopic slag inclusions:-) |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
One of the most frustrating things about Japanese blades is that they are either perfect or worthless.
Professional polish of this one will cost you several thousands of dollars. It will remove a lot of the most precious metal and the final result will likely be disappointing. Personally, I refuse to touch Nihonto with a fifty foot pole. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 909
|
![]()
Ariel is, I fear, absolutely correct in his observations.
I would suggest you enjoy it as it is, except for mild oiling or waxing to reduce further degradation. It does appear to have genuine age and this speaks as to its history. Several years ago, I found an omi-no-yari at Brimfield. I was second in line as there was a 'proper' nihonto collector already looking at it. He asked the dealer the price and then observed in response that, from losses to the engravings, it was already a bit too tired from repeated polishings. I paused and allowed him to take six steps away and then I immediately repeated the mentioned price back to the generalist dealer and promptly peeled this requested price from my bankroll. We were both smiling. For me this was a 'Brimfield eureka!' I was prepared to enjoy it as it was and still am. Some wax on the blade and a tiny touch of glue here and there, but otherwise still exactly as it was. I am not saying that the nihonto collecting community is wrong in their quest for flawless perfection, only that, characterizing myself as a general ethnographic arms collector, this is not my goal - for me the excitement is in the tangible evidence of very different times and places that such pieces provide. It has already been presented in these forums, so I'll not repeat the rest. There is a link to the Nihonto Message Board in that thread. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
![]() Quote:
Were did you hear that a Japanese blade is either "perfect or worthless"??? This is not the case at all, it really depends on the blade and the owner, some people are perfectionists and some people just enjoy collecting and do not expect perfection. I have some Japanese blades that are far from perfect and they are also far from worthless. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 525
|
![]() Quote:
My guess is Japanese Naginata and Koto-era, which means it was made before 1600. One good alternative to a full polishing is a window. The prize for such a 1"-window in the surface is around 100$/€. I know a Togishi in Germany for that purpose. I would say, this blade is worth a polishing, but I cannot see how deep the corrosion is. The problem is, that the outer layer of steel (Hada) is often only a few tenths of a Millimeter wide. If the outer layer is polished through, the inner core becomes visible and this core is often made of ugly low quality steel. I can see, that someone grinded the Nakago (tang), that is absoltely forbidden and reduces the value of the blade significantly. Roland p.s. Ariel, yes collecting Nihonto is a great risk. Until now, I bought four blades. One is junk, the other three pieces are of great quality. Unless you are willing to pay 8.000-10.000$ or more for a blade, it is always a gamble ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
Roland,
Not being even an amateur Nihonto collector I accept your dating this naginata to the Koto era. Otherwise, we are in complete agreement. See my post #9. I think that with heavy rust and abundant deep pitting this blade has lost its value for a serious collector. Full polishing, IMHO,will likely result in exactly what you are describing: complete or at the very least significant loss of Hada. I appreciate and respect your collection interest in Nihonto and am happy that you were able to restore some valuable examples to perfection. I just think this is not the case with this blade. My inclination would be to leave it alone. Oiling it to prevent further damage and respecting its age and hard life. Long ago I bought a sword at a Gun and Knife Show for a maximum I could afford then :$25. It was in a fire and retempered, the blade lost a lot of its width and thickness from repeated sharpenings and polishing, the Yakiba was no more than 2-3 mm wide and soft steel was showing. But it was signed, and several “serious” Nihonto buffs told me that the smith was Kanesada first generation, dating it to ~ 15-16 century ( if I remember correctly). From the”serious collector” perch it was not worth even what I paid for it:-) And that was what I was told repeatedly : hopeless sword that was long dead. But for me this sword was important: many generations of warriors knew something about this blade, brought it back to life many times over and kept it despite its obvious flaws. They just did not want to see it die. It had some special historical value. We cannot recall it, but generations of samurai did. And that is why I keep it, despite not collecting Nihonto. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 478
|
![]()
I think "would not paper" is a better choice of words than "worthless". However I agree with Ariel, from a Nihonto standpoint they are pretty much the same.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 444
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|