BATAK OR BORNEO ???

Dajak · 11th June 2006, 12:31 PM

Who can tell me the difference

Lew · 11th June 2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Who can tell me the difference

Dajak

I far as I know piso-padangs if I am spelling it correctly are Batak. Here is a picture of mine for comparison.

Lew

VVV · 11th June 2006, 04:27 PM

That's probably impossible to see (unless you know were they were collected of course?). Maybe if we could see the scabbards there would be some signs of origin?
As you know those, originally Indian, swords were very popular trading blades in both regions. It's documented that they also were manufactured in the arms factories of Brunei at the end of 19th C for domestic use in Borneo. The Iban Pedang usually doesn't have that kind of very floral decoration on the hilt as one of your examples.
Maybe that sword is an Indian trade blade?
Some people say that the "open cup" is typical Batak but I guess we all also have seen Batak Piso Podang with closed cup like yours?
Dajak, what have you found out yourself?

Michael

Dajak · 11th June 2006, 05:35 PM

Hi lets say I did only see a batak piso podang with the plain hilt

And did see a brass hilt from an parang nabur with the same as in the pic

Nagawarrior · 11th June 2006, 05:36 PM

As far as I know these swords are Batak. Both Tirri and Stone reference them. Here is a picture of mine, with open cup style hilt.

Dajak · 11th June 2006, 08:54 PM

Hi yours looks more a batak sword than the one from vvv

here are some pics that show a dajak batung lupar that did use these swords too

And some pics from an Batak book

VVV · 11th June 2006, 11:03 PM

Hi Dajak,

I am a bit disappointed and don't buy the old open cup/closed cup classification as a 100% indicator of Batak or Borneo origin.
As you know I have f.i. an extremely long Batak PP with a closed cup that once was in your collection.
The other reason, as I described above, was that several of them were popular trade blades produced in India and for them the open/closed cup tell sign doesn't work either.
The famous PP in Tropen was collected among Toba Bataks and has a variation of closed cup.
Also at least 3 of the Batak Piso Podang in the Leiden collection has closed cup (but I suspect two of them are trade blades).
However I agree that most of the time the Borneo Pedang hasn't open cup.
But sometimes the Batak Piso Podang has closed cup...

It's a tricky sword to classify and I think a lot more research has to be done on it.

Michael

11th June 2006, 12:31 PM	#1
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	BATAK OR BORNEO ??? Who can tell me the difference Attached Images

11th June 2006, 08:54 PM	#6
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi yours looks more a batak sword than the one from vvv here are some pics that show a dajak batung lupar that did use these swords too And some pics from an Batak book Attached Images

11th June 2006, 04:27 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	That's probably impossible to see (unless you know were they were collected of course?). Maybe if we could see the scabbards there would be some signs of origin? As you know those, originally Indian, swords were very popular trading blades in both regions. It's documented that they also were manufactured in the arms factories of Brunei at the end of 19th C for domestic use in Borneo. The Iban Pedang usually doesn't have that kind of very floral decoration on the hilt as one of your examples. Maybe that sword is an Indian trade blade? Some people say that the "open cup" is typical Batak but I guess we all also have seen Batak Piso Podang with closed cup like yours? Dajak, what have you found out yourself? Michael

11th June 2006, 05:35 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi lets say I did only see a batak piso podang with the plain hilt And did see a brass hilt from an parang nabur with the same as in the pic

11th June 2006, 05:36 PM	#5
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	As far as I know these swords are Batak. Both Tirri and Stone reference them. Here is a picture of mine, with open cup style hilt.

11th June 2006, 11:03 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Dajak, I am a bit disappointed and don't buy the old open cup/closed cup classification as a 100% indicator of Batak or Borneo origin. As you know I have f.i. an extremely long Batak PP with a closed cup that once was in your collection. The other reason, as I described above, was that several of them were popular trade blades produced in India and for them the open/closed cup tell sign doesn't work either. The famous PP in Tropen was collected among Toba Bataks and has a variation of closed cup. Also at least 3 of the Batak Piso Podang in the Leiden collection has closed cup (but I suspect two of them are trade blades). However I agree that most of the time the Borneo Pedang hasn't open cup. But sometimes the Batak Piso Podang has closed cup... It's a tricky sword to classify and I think a lot more research has to be done on it. Michael