Does cleaning a keris hurt overall value or patina?

dave78 · 12th January 2011, 07:50 AM

I am considering whether or not to clean up my recently acquired keris.

I'm sure many of you are aware of the TV program "Antiques Road Show",

and they always say don't clean or refinish old pieces because it will

greatly reduce the value and patina of a piece. This advice is most

often geared towards metal objects (guns, knives etc.) and wooden objects

such as furniture. Are there any major do's and dont's in this regard?

I've also noticed that people regularly switch parts around such as the

hilt. Isn't it better to keep the piece in original condition?

Henk · 12th January 2011, 04:16 PM

Yes Dave, of course it is better to keep the piece in original condition. That's for all antique items and certainly for weapons. Every authority on antique says so. But keris is a bit different. To keep the blade in its good condition the blade should be cleaned from time to time. If the blade is in good condition preserve it by oiling otherwise it should be stained with warangan. There is enough to read about it on the forum.

For the dress you should realise that in the malay climate especially the wooden parts disapear under your hands. So it is well known that the wooden parts of a keris where changed regularly. Mostly the dress of a keris is much younger than the keris itself. Besides that it was custom if you had the possability to upgrade your keris or to reward the keris, you changed the dress in a more fancier and more expensive dress.

But for us collectors, we try to preserve the original dress of the keris as good as possible and when the blade is rusty we try to give it a proper stain.

Read the threads on the forum and you will find out.

Best, Henk

David · 12th January 2011, 05:08 PM

I think Henk and i are pretty much in agreement, but i will throw down my 2 cents on the matter anyway...

It is part of the culture of the keris to regularly clean and re-stain the blades (though staining is not a common tradition on the Peninsula as i understand it). It is a way of doing honor to the blade and to maintain the spirit and ancestral energy which is supposedly held within.
Also, as Henk already pointed out, dress was routinely changed as wooded parts wore out or social status was upgraded. Of course this is all as seen from the perspective from within the culture.
Now many of us are collectors of keris from outside the culture. Still, i see nothing wrong with attempting to maintain my keris from a somewhat indigenous perspective. So if i receive a keris that is in a bad state of condition i may well choose to renovate that keris to bring it up to respectable and "original" shape. I would therefore clean the blade with pineapple juice and stain it with warangan (a mixture of lime and arsenic) to revitalize the blade. If the dress is particularly damaged i may attempt to repair it as best i can.
Sometimes you will find a keris that is already a mishmosh of various styles that has been assembled by some dealer somewhere just for the sake of sale. Under those circumstances i might choose to replace a hilt or other part to return the keris to what i perceive a a more correct cultural dress for that particular keris.
What i do not generally choose to do, however, is to upgrade the dress of my keris just for the sake of presenting a prettier ensemble. Some collector do this, but i find it counter to my own intentions of collection. I like to collect keris with a "history" and much prefer to find a keris that is as close to "original" condition as possible.
But if you are wondering whether cleaning the blade of your keris will hurt the value of that keris i would have to say no, it would not, unless of course you did some kind of irreversible damage to the blade. If you do a search on this forum for keris cleaning you should come up with some fairly clear instructions on how to safely clean your blade and prevent further rusting. Staining with warangan is a bit trickier and you might want to leave that to a professional or not stain it at all, but nobody likes a rusty keris blade so i would recommend that if there is active rust on your blade you take care of it and then oil the blade regularly.

Sajen · 12th January 2011, 09:09 PM

Hello Dave,

in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11844 I show the restoration of one keris from my collection and you will find there a discussion about restoration in general as well.

Regards,

Detlef

dave78 · 13th January 2011, 03:35 AM

It is with great care and consideration, and after reading all the

responses, that I have decided to clean the blade only and let the rest

of it grow old gracefully. I like to think of the slight dirt on the

hilt, which has a greyish appearance, not as mere dirt but as grey hair

on a well traveled, old wise man, which (in my opinion) helps gives the

piece character.

My belief is that the time and diligence put into this will serve to

honour the original maker and spirits, as well as my grandfather from

whom I inherited it, and my hope is that they would approve of my

decision.

Once again, thank you all for your thoughtful and meaningful comments,

and expertise.

Henk · 13th January 2011, 05:32 PM

Dave,

I think you should clean the dress of your keris so that the grey layer disappears. You certainly will not honour the maker and spirits by neglecting the house of the keris. If i come home i don't feel comfortable when the house is dirty with everwhere layers of dust. The spirits of the keris and the maker will think the same way.
Your grandfather? I don't know. If the dirt on the keris reminds you of your grandfather and i mean the fact that his hands touched that surface and you want to preserve that memory, fine.
But if you want to do justice to the keris, clean it!!

12th January 2011, 07:50 AM	#1
dave78 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 6	Does cleaning a keris hurt overall value or patina? I am considering whether or not to clean up my recently acquired keris. I'm sure many of you are aware of the TV program "Antiques Road Show", and they always say don't clean or refinish old pieces because it will greatly reduce the value and patina of a piece. This advice is most often geared towards metal objects (guns, knives etc.) and wooden objects such as furniture. Are there any major do's and dont's in this regard? I've also noticed that people regularly switch parts around such as the hilt. Isn't it better to keep the piece in original condition?

12th January 2011, 04:16 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Yes Dave, of course it is better to keep the piece in original condition. That's for all antique items and certainly for weapons. Every authority on antique says so. But keris is a bit different. To keep the blade in its good condition the blade should be cleaned from time to time. If the blade is in good condition preserve it by oiling otherwise it should be stained with warangan. There is enough to read about it on the forum. For the dress you should realise that in the malay climate especially the wooden parts disapear under your hands. So it is well known that the wooden parts of a keris where changed regularly. Mostly the dress of a keris is much younger than the keris itself. Besides that it was custom if you had the possability to upgrade your keris or to reward the keris, you changed the dress in a more fancier and more expensive dress. But for us collectors, we try to preserve the original dress of the keris as good as possible and when the blade is rusty we try to give it a proper stain. Read the threads on the forum and you will find out. Best, Henk

12th January 2011, 05:08 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I think Henk and i are pretty much in agreement, but i will throw down my 2 cents on the matter anyway... It is part of the culture of the keris to regularly clean and re-stain the blades (though staining is not a common tradition on the Peninsula as i understand it). It is a way of doing honor to the blade and to maintain the spirit and ancestral energy which is supposedly held within. Also, as Henk already pointed out, dress was routinely changed as wooded parts wore out or social status was upgraded. Of course this is all as seen from the perspective from within the culture. Now many of us are collectors of keris from outside the culture. Still, i see nothing wrong with attempting to maintain my keris from a somewhat indigenous perspective. So if i receive a keris that is in a bad state of condition i may well choose to renovate that keris to bring it up to respectable and "original" shape. I would therefore clean the blade with pineapple juice and stain it with warangan (a mixture of lime and arsenic) to revitalize the blade. If the dress is particularly damaged i may attempt to repair it as best i can. Sometimes you will find a keris that is already a mishmosh of various styles that has been assembled by some dealer somewhere just for the sake of sale. Under those circumstances i might choose to replace a hilt or other part to return the keris to what i perceive a a more correct cultural dress for that particular keris. What i do not generally choose to do, however, is to upgrade the dress of my keris just for the sake of presenting a prettier ensemble. Some collector do this, but i find it counter to my own intentions of collection. I like to collect keris with a "history" and much prefer to find a keris that is as close to "original" condition as possible. But if you are wondering whether cleaning the blade of your keris will hurt the value of that keris i would have to say no, it would not, unless of course you did some kind of irreversible damage to the blade. If you do a search on this forum for keris cleaning you should come up with some fairly clear instructions on how to safely clean your blade and prevent further rusting. Staining with warangan is a bit trickier and you might want to leave that to a professional or not stain it at all, but nobody likes a rusty keris blade so i would recommend that if there is active rust on your blade you take care of it and then oil the blade regularly.

12th January 2011, 09:09 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Dave, in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11844 I show the restoration of one keris from my collection and you will find there a discussion about restoration in general as well. Regards, Detlef

13th January 2011, 03:35 AM	#5
dave78 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 6	It is with great care and consideration, and after reading all the responses, that I have decided to clean the blade only and let the rest of it grow old gracefully. I like to think of the slight dirt on the hilt, which has a greyish appearance, not as mere dirt but as grey hair on a well traveled, old wise man, which (in my opinion) helps gives the piece character. My belief is that the time and diligence put into this will serve to honour the original maker and spirits, as well as my grandfather from whom I inherited it, and my hope is that they would approve of my decision. Once again, thank you all for your thoughtful and meaningful comments, and expertise.

13th January 2011, 05:32 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Dave, I think you should clean the dress of your keris so that the grey layer disappears. You certainly will not honour the maker and spirits by neglecting the house of the keris. If i come home i don't feel comfortable when the house is dirty with everwhere layers of dust. The spirits of the keris and the maker will think the same way. Your grandfather? I don't know. If the dirt on the keris reminds you of your grandfather and i mean the fact that his hands touched that surface and you want to preserve that memory, fine. But if you want to do justice to the keris, clean it!!