Need Help Identifying This Tantō

dana_w · 4th February 2013, 09:38 PM

This is the first of two Tantō Daggers that I am trying to learn about. I would appreciate any comments.

The overall length is 15 5/8 inches. The blade measures 9 3/16 inches from the tip to the guard. The weight with the scabbard is 9 ounces.

Thanks Dana

The photos are copyright (c) 2012 by Dana K. Williams, All Rights Are Reserved

Atlantia · 4th February 2013, 09:58 PM

Post 1883 Commissioned officers naval dirk. In use up until 1945.

dana_w · 4th February 2013, 10:32 PM

Thanks Atlantia, Using the info you provided I was able to located one a lot like it.

dana_w · 5th February 2013, 12:29 AM

This is the second of the two Tantō Daggers that I am trying to learn about. I've been told that it was for use by Kamikaze pilots in WWII.

The overall length is 9 inches. The blade measures 5 1/4 inches from the tip to the guard.

The photos are copyright (c) 2012 by Dana K. Williams, All Rights Are Reserved

VANDOO · 5th February 2013, 02:22 AM

NOT LIKELY FOR USE BY KAMACAZI PILOTS AS THEY WENT DOWN WITH THEIR PLANES SO NO NEED FOR SEPUKU. AND IF YOU CHICKENED OUT NO DOUBT YOU WERE NOT ALOWED TO REGAIN YOUR HONOR VIA SEPUKU.
SOMEONE MORE KNOWLGABLE CAN GIVE YOU MORE INFORMATION ON THE DAGGER BUT THE KAMACAZI PART SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD STORY WITH LITTLE LOGIC.
EITHER WAY A COUPLE OF NICE DAGGERS.

dana_w · 5th February 2013, 03:41 AM

The story goes something like this:

"Knives were carried by Kamikaze pilots for the purpose of suicide. They were intended for use in the rare case that the pilot survived his intentional crash into an enemy ship or building or whatever target he was supposed to destroy. These pilots had prepared themselves for death and to allow themselves to live would have been considered the ultimate cowardice in their culture. Traditionally WWII Japanese Kamikaze pilots were treated to luxuries, exotic foods, even sex for a short period before their mission. To be treated this way and then not follow through with the oath they had taken as Kamikaze pilots would be unthinkable. For this reason they often carried a simple unadorned tanto, sometimes with a prayer inscribed on the blade."

"Two out of three of the kamikazis got shot down and didn't hit a ship. If they weren't killed immediately they didn't have to wait to drown or be captured. That was the idea. Whether any of them were ever used for their intended purpose or not, it was what made you a kamikazi."

Timo Nieminen · 5th February 2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

This is the second of the two Tantō Daggers that I am trying to learn about. I've been told that it was for use by Kamikaze pilots in WWII.

The overall length is 9 inches. The blade measures 5 1/4 inches from the tip to the guard.

I've not seen any genuine military dirks or tanto like this, just plenty of Chinese fakes. Officer and kamikaze dirks in my experience tend to have either plain wood grip and scabbard, or lacquered, or leather covered.

Atlantia · 5th February 2013, 01:14 PM

These are problematic at best.
I was examining a similar 'dirk' a few weeks ago and whilst beautifully made with a striking hamon, the overall feel didn't seem right for a wartime piece.
It also had the complete shark/ray skin cover, but I remember that the joins on the skin seemed slightly 'ragged' and ugly. I actually disassembled it and the tang seemed artificially aged.

I would be interested to see your piece taken apart if you don't mind?

The definately genuine examples are in my limited experience mounted in plain wood, or even more rarely leather covered. (sometimes in a linen or leather cover/bag).
The one's I've seen also have 'flush' collars and not the tapering ones that your's has.

So, as a background on these, they certainly DO exist, although for obvious reasons they are rather rare.
The 'Kamikaze' (Divine wind/God Wind) pilots were allowed to carry a small Aikuchi dagger to allow him to slit his jugular vein in the seconds before impact.
Clearly the practicality of being able to do this while under heavy fire from the ships and wresting with the controls to stay 'on target' is debatable at best and it's unlikely that many pilots managed to say a prayer and slit their own throats and still hit the target.

However, that hasn't lessened the 'legend' of the Kamikaze and the demand from collectors for their 'dirks'.

As with all 'suicide bombers' the psychological effect, fear and damage to morale that they engender in those on the recieving end cannot be underestimated.
Bearing that in mind it's easy to understand why the 'Kamikaze dirk' has always been a desirable and sought after item.

After the war, when Japan was occupied and awash with American servicemen looking for souvenirs, I've often wondered if some of these 'more elaborate' Aikuchi were produced as 'letter openers'

and sold to servicemen with a 'wink and a nudge' (or whatever the Japanese equivilent is).
That's just a thought, I have no evidence to back it up as I've never really attempted to look into it.

One thing is for sure. There are a lot of similar fakes that have come from China and continue to do so.

So! Is it a Kamikaze dirk?
I'd say not.
Could it be small non-military Aikuchi? You'll need to take pictures of it in pieces and wait for those who collect such things.
Or is it a later 'post war' souvenir?

4th February 2013, 09:38 PM	#1
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Need Help Identifying This Tantō This is the first of two Tantō Daggers that I am trying to learn about. I would appreciate any comments. The overall length is 15 5/8 inches. The blade measures 9 3/16 inches from the tip to the guard. The weight with the scabbard is 9 ounces. Thanks Dana The photos are copyright (c) 2012 by Dana K. Williams, All Rights Are Reserved Attached Images

4th February 2013, 10:32 PM	#3
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Thanks Atlantia, Using the info you provided I was able to located one a lot like it. Last edited by David; 5th February 2013 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Sorry Dana, no links to commercial websites allowed...

5th February 2013, 12:29 AM	#4
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	This is the second of the two Tantō Daggers that I am trying to learn about. I've been told that it was for use by Kamikaze pilots in WWII. The overall length is 9 inches. The blade measures 5 1/4 inches from the tip to the guard. The photos are copyright (c) 2012 by Dana K. Williams, All Rights Are Reserved Attached Images

5th February 2013, 01:14 PM	#8
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	These are problematic at best. I was examining a similar 'dirk' a few weeks ago and whilst beautifully made with a striking hamon, the overall feel didn't seem right for a wartime piece. It also had the complete shark/ray skin cover, but I remember that the joins on the skin seemed slightly 'ragged' and ugly. I actually disassembled it and the tang seemed artificially aged. I would be interested to see your piece taken apart if you don't mind? The definately genuine examples are in my limited experience mounted in plain wood, or even more rarely leather covered. (sometimes in a linen or leather cover/bag). The one's I've seen also have 'flush' collars and not the tapering ones that your's has. So, as a background on these, they certainly DO exist, although for obvious reasons they are rather rare. The 'Kamikaze' (Divine wind/God Wind) pilots were allowed to carry a small Aikuchi dagger to allow him to slit his jugular vein in the seconds before impact. Clearly the practicality of being able to do this while under heavy fire from the ships and wresting with the controls to stay 'on target' is debatable at best and it's unlikely that many pilots managed to say a prayer and slit their own throats and still hit the target. However, that hasn't lessened the 'legend' of the Kamikaze and the demand from collectors for their 'dirks'. As with all 'suicide bombers' the psychological effect, fear and damage to morale that they engender in those on the recieving end cannot be underestimated. Bearing that in mind it's easy to understand why the 'Kamikaze dirk' has always been a desirable and sought after item. After the war, when Japan was occupied and awash with American servicemen looking for souvenirs, I've often wondered if some of these 'more elaborate' Aikuchi were produced as 'letter openers' and sold to servicemen with a 'wink and a nudge' (or whatever the Japanese equivilent is). That's just a thought, I have no evidence to back it up as I've never really attempted to look into it. One thing is for sure. There are a lot of similar fakes that have come from China and continue to do so. So! Is it a Kamikaze dirk? I'd say not. Could it be small non-military Aikuchi? You'll need to take pictures of it in pieces and wait for those who collect such things. Or is it a later 'post war' souvenir? Last edited by Atlantia; 5th February 2013 at 03:24 PM. Reason: correcting spelling typos

4th February 2013, 09:58 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Post 1883 Commissioned officers naval dirk. In use up until 1945.

5th February 2013, 02:22 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NOT LIKELY FOR USE BY KAMACAZI PILOTS AS THEY WENT DOWN WITH THEIR PLANES SO NO NEED FOR SEPUKU. AND IF YOU CHICKENED OUT NO DOUBT YOU WERE NOT ALOWED TO REGAIN YOUR HONOR VIA SEPUKU. SOMEONE MORE KNOWLGABLE CAN GIVE YOU MORE INFORMATION ON THE DAGGER BUT THE KAMACAZI PART SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD STORY WITH LITTLE LOGIC. EITHER WAY A COUPLE OF NICE DAGGERS.

5th February 2013, 03:41 AM	#6
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	The story goes something like this: "Knives were carried by Kamikaze pilots for the purpose of suicide. They were intended for use in the rare case that the pilot survived his intentional crash into an enemy ship or building or whatever target he was supposed to destroy. These pilots had prepared themselves for death and to allow themselves to live would have been considered the ultimate cowardice in their culture. Traditionally WWII Japanese Kamikaze pilots were treated to luxuries, exotic foods, even sex for a short period before their mission. To be treated this way and then not follow through with the oath they had taken as Kamikaze pilots would be unthinkable. For this reason they often carried a simple unadorned tanto, sometimes with a prayer inscribed on the blade." "Two out of three of the kamikazis got shot down and didn't hit a ship. If they weren't killed immediately they didn't have to wait to drown or be captured. That was the idea. Whether any of them were ever used for their intended purpose or not, it was what made you a kamikazi."