Tell tale signs of fake?

eques · 29th October 2010, 06:29 PM

I've been looking at some of the Indonesian and Filipino swords on ebay. Some of the prices look attractive but nobody bids on them, which lead me to think if it was a fake (tourist item) or not. What are the signs that a sword is fake (tourist item) based on the pictures alone? Would one consider a lack of patination (on brass) or thin blades as signs of fake swords?

Thanks!

carlitobrigante · 31st October 2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eques

I've been looking at some of the Indonesian and Filipino swords on ebay. Some of the prices look attractive but nobody bids on them, which lead me to think if it was a fake (tourist item) or not. What are the signs that a sword is fake (tourist item) based on the pictures alone? Would one consider a lack of patination (on brass) or thin blades as signs of fake swords?

Thanks!

I was almost caught out by an ebay seller recently. He sells multiple moro kris, and the odd other item. All are very very good quality, but they are recently made pieces that have had the blades artificially aged. Regardless they are still lovely items, and he doesnt mention the word antique anywhere in his listing, but they can catch the unwary out quite easily.

The rules here rightly stop me from mentioning names or posting pics. As to your points on whether lack of bids should be a warning sign. Possibly....but also remember the market is in the toilet in seems for sellers at the moment and lots of nice items are failing to gather a bid despite being well priced.

Patination is one of the best indicators of age, but can be distorted in pictures and often difficult to judge without having the item in hand.

Other things to bear in mind are the usual tips, i.e - does he sell similar items often, that all look alike? Are his feedbacks private etc etc.

Theres no definative answer im afraid. Better and better quality fakes keep appearing. Methods improve, and buying from ebay will always be a gamble.

Im so far from an expert its funny, and theres many more here more qualified to help, but feel free to send me the links of the items in question and ill give an opinion away from the forum.

Jim McDougall · 31st October 2010, 06:37 PM

Very nicely handled gentlemen! A most concerning and delicate topic, and your nicely worded comments remind us to use caution when addressing it.
Thank you,
Best regards,
Jim

Battara · 31st October 2010, 10:33 PM

IT also depends on what your interests are. Some indicators change a little from one type to another.

And if the blade is made of plastic.........well..........er.............um... .........

Rick · 1st November 2010, 02:12 AM

I am very glad that I collected my Moro stuff in the early years and before the fakers bloomed .
I have acquired enough old genuine pieces to satisfy my desires .

As for Indonesian work I would only use a reputable dealer for either old pieces or quality new work, which I do not consider 'fake' unless misrepresented as old .

A. G. Maisey · 1st November 2010, 04:55 AM

Beginning in about 1978 I have dealt internationally in Indonesian , South East Asian, and other edged weapons.

At least once a week I get a query from somebody, somewhere in the world to give an opinion as to whether something listed in either Ebay, another auction site, or the site of another dealer , is what it is claimed to be, and whether it is old or recent.

Sometimes I am able to give a positive answer that identifies it as old, or new , or altered, or whatever, but even when I give that positive answer it is qualified by something like:- "based upon what I can see in the pictures".

Mostly I cannot provide an answer that I am prepared to stand behind. In other words, most times I simply do not know what I am looking at.

I have been involved with keris for more than 55 years; I have bought keris and other weapons in Indonesia for more than 44 years; I have extensive experience in restoration of keris and other weapons, and in the making of edged weapons including keris.

In spite of this experience I do not buy on the basis of photographs from people I do not know.

Why?

Because I cannot tell with any certainty what I am being asked to part with money for.

I regard the risk of getting other than what I want to be too high.

29th October 2010, 06:29 PM	#1
eques Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6	Tell tale signs of fake? I've been looking at some of the Indonesian and Filipino swords on ebay. Some of the prices look attractive but nobody bids on them, which lead me to think if it was a fake (tourist item) or not. What are the signs that a sword is fake (tourist item) based on the pictures alone? Would one consider a lack of patination (on brass) or thin blades as signs of fake swords? Thanks!

31st October 2010, 06:37 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Very nicely handled gentlemen! A most concerning and delicate topic, and your nicely worded comments remind us to use caution when addressing it. Thank you, Best regards, Jim

31st October 2010, 10:33 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	IT also depends on what your interests are. Some indicators change a little from one type to another. And if the blade is made of plastic.........well..........er.............um... .........

1st November 2010, 02:12 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I am very glad that I collected my Moro stuff in the early years and before the fakers bloomed . I have acquired enough old genuine pieces to satisfy my desires . As for Indonesian work I would only use a reputable dealer for either old pieces or quality new work, which I do not consider 'fake' unless misrepresented as old .

1st November 2010, 04:55 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Beginning in about 1978 I have dealt internationally in Indonesian , South East Asian, and other edged weapons. At least once a week I get a query from somebody, somewhere in the world to give an opinion as to whether something listed in either Ebay, another auction site, or the site of another dealer , is what it is claimed to be, and whether it is old or recent. Sometimes I am able to give a positive answer that identifies it as old, or new , or altered, or whatever, but even when I give that positive answer it is qualified by something like:- "based upon what I can see in the pictures". Mostly I cannot provide an answer that I am prepared to stand behind. In other words, most times I simply do not know what I am looking at. I have been involved with keris for more than 55 years; I have bought keris and other weapons in Indonesia for more than 44 years; I have extensive experience in restoration of keris and other weapons, and in the making of edged weapons including keris. In spite of this experience I do not buy on the basis of photographs from people I do not know. Why? Because I cannot tell with any certainty what I am being asked to part with money for. I regard the risk of getting other than what I want to be too high.