Cavalry cup hilt

midelburgo · 8th June 2020, 01:27 PM

I just got a nice cup hilt with a military blade. Similar blades with the inscriptions "xESPADEROxxENxxALMANIA" and "xMISINALxxESELxxNOMBRExDxIESU", can be found with cavalry officer swords of the 1728 model, although I suspect they could be mountings with older blades. I will put tentatively this one in the period 1670-1690. Grip is metallic and it has a nice point breaker and a simple "guardapolvo".

There was something strange with the upper part of the cup, the border is too irregular and the gap with the quillions too large.

I suspected it could be due to a missing decorative silver or brass band at the rim, and having the sword in the hand, now I think this is the case. Also something could be also missing at the root of one of the quillions.

However, I cannot find any similar examples. Maybe you know of some. Silver/brass decorations are not unusual in newer examples, especially with a colonial background.

M ELEY · 14th June 2020, 04:10 AM

Hello Midelburgo. Beautiful cuphilt and I'm rather surprised no one has commented on it yet. I am but a novice when it comes to these, but I think you are on the right track when you mention a possible colonial connection. I know this always gets some dander up when mentioning such, but I feel it is a distinct possibility. The cup is very fine, but lacks the blade catching rim (I always forget the name!) and the brazing of metal to secure the quillons (pas d'ane, etc) are often seen in colonial settings. The grip is also a simple affair, not the double knotted copper wrap/turk's heads often seen, but again, this could still be a 'munitions' grade piece, but if so, why the fancier bowl? The m1728 blades with motto were shipped to all of Spain's colonies and are find on ship's rosters and also on many a shipwreck found in the New World. In either event, she is a real beauty and I'd love to have her for my maritime/pirate collection should you ever decide to include me in your will-

mark

Oliver Pinchot · 21st June 2020, 06:54 PM

Midelburgo,

I agree the cup must have had a substantial rim. Seems likelier it would have been iron, and friction fitted rather than riveted? Wondered if there are any rivet holes; none visible in the pics.

midelburgo · 21st June 2020, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

Midelburgo,

I agree the cup must have had a substantial rim. Seems likelier it would have been iron, and friction fitted rather than riveted? Wondered if there are any rivet holes; none visible in the pics.

No visible way of attachment. A possibility is that the rim was sawed off, for whatever reason, but there are no clear signals of that either.

About the colonial description, we have to think that what makes nowadays differences between Hispanic America and Spain is that they have evolved in different ways since the early XIXth century. Often Hispanic America has kept characteristics from XVI to XVIIIth centuries that were also common in Spain once. Language is full of those. So it is often not easy to say that something is Colonial about a piece from the XVIIth century, because it could have been just the same at both sides of the Atlantic at its proper time.

8th June 2020, 01:27 PM	#1
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 257	Cavalry cup hilt I just got a nice cup hilt with a military blade. Similar blades with the inscriptions "xESPADEROxxENxxALMANIA" and "xMISINALxxESELxxNOMBRExDxIESU", can be found with cavalry officer swords of the 1728 model, although I suspect they could be mountings with older blades. I will put tentatively this one in the period 1670-1690. Grip is metallic and it has a nice point breaker and a simple "guardapolvo". There was something strange with the upper part of the cup, the border is too irregular and the gap with the quillions too large. I suspected it could be due to a missing decorative silver or brass band at the rim, and having the sword in the hand, now I think this is the case. Also something could be also missing at the root of one of the quillions. However, I cannot find any similar examples. Maybe you know of some. Silver/brass decorations are not unusual in newer examples, especially with a colonial background. Attached Images Last edited by midelburgo; 8th June 2020 at 01:42 PM.

14th June 2020, 04:10 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Hello Midelburgo. Beautiful cuphilt and I'm rather surprised no one has commented on it yet. I am but a novice when it comes to these, but I think you are on the right track when you mention a possible colonial connection. I know this always gets some dander up when mentioning such, but I feel it is a distinct possibility. The cup is very fine, but lacks the blade catching rim (I always forget the name!) and the brazing of metal to secure the quillons (pas d'ane, etc) are often seen in colonial settings. The grip is also a simple affair, not the double knotted copper wrap/turk's heads often seen, but again, this could still be a 'munitions' grade piece, but if so, why the fancier bowl? The m1728 blades with motto were shipped to all of Spain's colonies and are find on ship's rosters and also on many a shipwreck found in the New World. In either event, she is a real beauty and I'd love to have her for my maritime/pirate collection should you ever decide to include me in your will- mark

21st June 2020, 06:54 PM	#3
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	Midelburgo, I agree the cup must have had a substantial rim. Seems likelier it would have been iron, and friction fitted rather than riveted? Wondered if there are any rivet holes; none visible in the pics.