Help with Philippine Sword

t_c · 26th January 2009, 12:39 AM

I was recently reading on old interview with Leo Giron the founder of Giron Arnis Escrima (aka "Bahala Na"). In the interview he describes a sword he calls a "talonason". Is anyone familiar with this term and what type of weapon he is refering to (what's it look like)? He served in Northern Luzon during WWII and also also grew up? in Luzon - Pangasinan, if that helps narrow down the dialect...
Any info is greatly appreciated, thanks!

Quoted from the interview (last Q/A):
"Our weapons of choice were the bolo knife or talonason, a long knife whose overall length is 36 inches long."

t_c · 28th January 2009, 09:17 PM

No ideas, eh?

OK, does anyone know what "longer" weapons were used in Luzon, if there were any specific types, etc. around 3 feet long or at least significantly longer than your average bolo? I'll settle for a rough idea or any leads for further research.
Thanks in advance!

Rick · 28th January 2009, 09:22 PM

There are some miniature forms of both Moro and non Moro ew's shown and discussed in this thread , also a link in that to another with more examples.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8261

Robert · 29th January 2009, 01:36 AM

T_C, I only have two swords from the Philippines that are over thirty inches in length and both are probably from Luzon. I could post a picture of them if you would like me to but both of these show strong Spanish influence and I doubt seriously that either are what you are looking for. It is a shame that the description he gave was not more complete.

Robert

t_c · 29th January 2009, 06:51 AM

Rick: Thanks for the lead, I'll have to dig into it some more (only have had time for cursory look).

Robert: That would be great, I'd really appreciate it. I'm sure it was a matter of practicality and training that drove what he chose to use. I doubt you could be too picky in war time when you just got off the sub and relied on the locals to outfit you. I'd be interested in seeing some examples of long swords from the PI anyways.

thanks,
tom

P.S. Here's an interesting excerpt from the interview regarding one of his encounters in WWII for those interested:

FMA: What was the most memorable encounter you had with the enemy?
LG: Well it is hard to try and choose one particular encounter because they were all very horrifying. One Bonsai attack comes to mind, in early June 1945 on a rainy day. A large number of enemy soldiers charged our position. We formed a wedge or triangle formation, two on the side and one as a point man. I was point man. Just like any Bonsai charge the enemy was always noisy. Yelling and shouting, they are not afraid to die. The Filipino guerrillas, on the other hand, chew their tobacco, grit their teeth and wing their bolos, chop here, jab there, long bolos, short daggers, pointed bamboo, pulverized chili peppers with sand deposited in bamboo tubes to spray so the enemy cannot see. By now my adrenaline must have gone up. One bayonet and samurai sword came simultaneously. The samurai sword was in front of me while the bayonet was a little to the left. With my left hand I parried the bayonet. I blocked the sword coming down on me. The bayonet man went by and his body came in line with my bolo. That’s when I came down to cut his left hip. The Samurai was coming back with a backhand blow. I met his triceps with the bolo and chopped it to the ground. After the encounter I wiped my face with my left hand to clear my eyes from the rain and found bloodstains on my face. There were many more encounters. But our job was not to be detected by the enemy; our mission was to send back vital information on the enemy to headquarters.

Gonzalo G · 29th January 2009, 08:01 AM

The only reference I have found to this sword, in several languajes, comes from this single interview to Leo Giron. Maybe in philippino languaje there is some other reference.
Regards

Gonzalo

FilAmfighter1 · 16th October 2011, 01:55 AM

Just a note, Gm Leo's son has a copy of this blade made by Robert Ulep. I just saw this blade in training with him at the 2nd Annual Mataw Guro Conference. Look in then Mataw Guro website for pictures in the informative issue

weakroofblock · 17th October 2011, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilAmfighter1

Just a note, Gm Leo's son has a copy of this blade made by Robert Ulep. I just saw this blade in training with him at the 2nd Annual Mataw Guro Conference. Look in then Mataw Guro website for pictures in the informative issue

Many people personally associated with Leo Giron own training blades that are based on the original that can be seen in YouTube videos and on DVD from Masters Magazine, all of which may help to give an idea of how the original handled in use. The picture above is, to my knowledge, a picture of the original blade for documentational purposes.

According to Tony Somera's account in the Masters Magazine Giron Escrima: Larga Mano DVD, Giron had this weapon made specifically to deal with the length of the Type 99 Rifle/Type 30 Bayonet combo and the Shin Gunto. The weapon could, by this accounting, be a unique, non-traditional design, at least in length. The blade shape itself resembles many shorter Luzon blades I've seen.

26th January 2009, 12:39 AM	#1
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Help with Philippine Sword I was recently reading on old interview with Leo Giron the founder of Giron Arnis Escrima (aka "Bahala Na"). In the interview he describes a sword he calls a "talonason". Is anyone familiar with this term and what type of weapon he is refering to (what's it look like)? He served in Northern Luzon during WWII and also also grew up? in Luzon - Pangasinan, if that helps narrow down the dialect... Any info is greatly appreciated, thanks! Quoted from the interview (last Q/A): "Our weapons of choice were the bolo knife or talonason, a long knife whose overall length is 36 inches long."

16th October 2011, 01:55 AM	#7
FilAmfighter1 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Torrance Posts: 49	GM Leo's Blade Just a note, Gm Leo's son has a copy of this blade made by Robert Ulep. I just saw this blade in training with him at the 2nd Annual Mataw Guro Conference. Look in then Mataw Guro website for pictures in the informative issue

28th January 2009, 09:17 PM	#2
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	No ideas, eh? OK, does anyone know what "longer" weapons were used in Luzon, if there were any specific types, etc. around 3 feet long or at least significantly longer than your average bolo? I'll settle for a rough idea or any leads for further research. Thanks in advance!

28th January 2009, 09:22 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	There are some miniature forms of both Moro and non Moro ew's shown and discussed in this thread , also a link in that to another with more examples. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8261

29th January 2009, 01:36 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	T_C, I only have two swords from the Philippines that are over thirty inches in length and both are probably from Luzon. I could post a picture of them if you would like me to but both of these show strong Spanish influence and I doubt seriously that either are what you are looking for. It is a shame that the description he gave was not more complete. Robert

29th January 2009, 06:51 AM	#5
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Rick: Thanks for the lead, I'll have to dig into it some more (only have had time for cursory look). Robert: That would be great, I'd really appreciate it. I'm sure it was a matter of practicality and training that drove what he chose to use. I doubt you could be too picky in war time when you just got off the sub and relied on the locals to outfit you. I'd be interested in seeing some examples of long swords from the PI anyways. thanks, tom P.S. Here's an interesting excerpt from the interview regarding one of his encounters in WWII for those interested: FMA: What was the most memorable encounter you had with the enemy? LG: Well it is hard to try and choose one particular encounter because they were all very horrifying. One Bonsai attack comes to mind, in early June 1945 on a rainy day. A large number of enemy soldiers charged our position. We formed a wedge or triangle formation, two on the side and one as a point man. I was point man. Just like any Bonsai charge the enemy was always noisy. Yelling and shouting, they are not afraid to die. The Filipino guerrillas, on the other hand, chew their tobacco, grit their teeth and wing their bolos, chop here, jab there, long bolos, short daggers, pointed bamboo, pulverized chili peppers with sand deposited in bamboo tubes to spray so the enemy cannot see. By now my adrenaline must have gone up. One bayonet and samurai sword came simultaneously. The samurai sword was in front of me while the bayonet was a little to the left. With my left hand I parried the bayonet. I blocked the sword coming down on me. The bayonet man went by and his body came in line with my bolo. That’s when I came down to cut his left hip. The Samurai was coming back with a backhand blow. I met his triceps with the bolo and chopped it to the ground. After the encounter I wiped my face with my left hand to clear my eyes from the rain and found bloodstains on my face. There were many more encounters. But our job was not to be detected by the enemy; our mission was to send back vital information on the enemy to headquarters.

29th January 2009, 08:01 AM	#6
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	The only reference I have found to this sword, in several languajes, comes from this single interview to Leo Giron. Maybe in philippino languaje there is some other reference. Regards Gonzalo