Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2nd March 2012, 06:58 PM   #1
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default A Portuguese blunderbuss

Not a setup made of components from various origins, which often happens(over here), but an actual "born" blunderbuss example from the 18th. century; a luxury one, by the way.
A most unusual fine detail is the engraving inside the muzzle.
The heart shaped hole in the belt hook is also a nice romantic touch.
The lock style is called here half Portuguese & half French ... the late due to the internal spring action; although only with one position, that of full cock. The half cock postion is done with a hand moving pawl, which is considered one of the safest mechanisms for such purpose.
Original ramrod. Length of barrel 44 cms (17,3"). Total weight 3,070 Kgs. ( 6,8 oz.).


.
Attached Images
            
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2012, 07:28 PM   #2
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Any coments?
Even just an "i like it" ... or "i don't" ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2012, 10:36 PM   #3
Fernando K
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 669
Default

Hola, Fernando

" I like lt". ¿La llave (lock) es llamada "Fecho de Molinhas"? ¿El gancho que asegura la media monta (halfcock) es movido manualmente o tiene algún resorte?. A pesar de que tiene su muelle real en el interior, se distingue de la llave francesa porque el mecanismo de disparo es horizontal (como en el miguelete). El muelle del rastrillo (frizen) es de una sola lámina, como en la llave (lock) "de agujeta" y en algunos migueletes orientales.

Afectuosamente. Fernando K
Hello, Fernando

"I like lt." The lock is called "Fecho de Molinhas"? Does the pawl that ensures the half cock move manually or has a spring?. Although it has its main spring in the interior, it is different from French system because the mechanism is horizontal (as in the miguelete). The spring of the frizen is a single blade, as in the "agujeta" lock and in some eastern migueletes.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Last edited by fernando; 3rd March 2012 at 11:24 PM.
Fernando K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2012, 11:49 PM   #4
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Thank you for your input Fernando.
No, this is not the "molinhas" lock. Although the manualy operated half cock external pawl (gancho) is that of the usual molinhas system, the internal spring is not that of the molinhas but the 'conventional' one, reason why this is called a half Portuguese half French lock.

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 06:33 PM   #5
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,597
Default

Hi Fernando,
I like it too!!!! . I was never convinced that the bell mouth
on blunderbusses contributed much to the spread of shot contrary to appearances and I guess the maker of this one may have been of a similar opinion hence the inclusion of decoration inside the barrel. Having said all that I'm sure the intimidating look and the volume of shot must have been very effective at close quarters as in deck clearing etc, I certainly would not like to be on the receiving end of a volley. Another nice inclusion for your collection of things that go "boom".
My Regards,
Norman.
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 07:10 PM   #6
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Thank you for input Norman,
I think that is more than proven that, the blunderbuss bell mouth purpose was for spreading the shot, is pure fantasy. A more realistic evidence was the facilitating of the load; We may also consider that its appearance would intimidate the guys in front of it ... be them bandits or a mutiny crew.
But these untruths belong in history with the same firmness as real facts.
This reminds me i have the same conviction about the so called sword breaker (rompe puntas) in some (many) cup hilted swords. I just can't buy the idea that you could manage to catch the adversary's sword tip with such reduced cavity and, even more implausible, bend it enough to break it .

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 11:08 PM   #7
Fernando K
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 669
Default

Hola Fernando:

Gracias por tu aclaración, y por las imágenes. Lo que no me queda claro es el gancho de seguridad: si era movido manualmente, cuando el pié de gato esta en posición de armado (full-cock) el gancho podía moverse e interferir en su caída.

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

Hi Fernando:

Thanks for your clarification, and images. What is not clear to me is the safety hook: if it was moved manually, when the cat's foot is in cocked position (full-cock) could move the hook and interfere in its fall.

Affectionately. Fernando
Fernando K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 11:14 PM   #8
broadaxe
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 332
Default

This is most interesting. I like blunderbusses as a rule, and lacking information regarding Portuguese arms. I can see the connection here of the well-decorated barrel, to Indonesian Lantakas.
The lock isn't exactly a miquelete, is it?
broadaxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2012, 04:29 PM   #9
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,097
Default

Beautiful gun, Fernando! Where do you manage to find all of your amazing pieces?! I really must follow you around some day!

In regards to the spreading of shot with flared muzzles, I agree; perhaps many believed it distributed shot broadly, but it is the length of barrel and the "looseness" of the shot that actually creates the shot-gun effect.

I also question the rompe puntas on cup-hilts as far as supposed function. I guess I could imagine that perhaps an extremely skilled duelist might temporarily snatch the point of his opponent's blade enough to deflect it momentarily?Just enough to set him "off-balance" before a killing thrust? Likewise, if it was such an important component of this type sword, why did the ones made in New Spain lack this detail?
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2012, 08:16 PM   #10
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broadaxe
This is most interesting. I like blunderbusses as a rule, and lacking information regarding Portuguese arms. I can see the connection here of the well-decorated barrel, to Indonesian Lantakas.
The lock isn't exactly a miquelete, is it?
The miquelete lock is completely another thing. The basic difference is that its main spring is in the outside of the plate. This had the advantage of not having to deeply carve the stock wood, hence not diminishing its strenght. For the same reason such main spring could be sturdier/stronger, something we can observe in most examples.
The action mechanism was also very particular, with its hammer foot operating both half and full cock by means of internal sears passing through the plate, suspending the hammer foot. As this hammer foot had its features similiar to a human sideburn, this lock was named (apart from later miquelete) "patilla" (patilha in portuguese).


.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2012, 07:53 PM   #11
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando K
... Lo que no me queda claro es el gancho de seguridad: si era movido manualmente, cuando el pié de gato esta en posición de armado (full-cock) el gancho podía moverse e interferir en su caída.

What is not clear to me is the safety hook (pawl): if it was moved manually, when the cat's foot is in full cocked position, the pawl could move in and interfere in its fall. ...
The pawl (gancho) is not dinamic (has no spring=muele); it stays where you leave it.
There is a small protuberance (saliencia) in the hammer (pie de gato) round foot . When you pull it up to full cock, this will push back the pawl (gancho), so that it won't be on the way when the hammer comes down.

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.