Nice Indo Persian Axe

Sikh_soldier · 22nd December 2008, 02:45 PM

Hi everyone, I have been away from the forums of late, with the last year of my degree taking me away from what is actualy important in life.

However, now that I have graduated (and unemployed hopefully temporarily!) I am back!

This axe went unsold at a local auction house and I was considering making an offer, but as many of you know I am very inexperienced, this may be my first axe!

I am confused to its age, is it a nice old example (18th to 19th century), a fake, or just a nice modern example.

Sorry for the poor pictures, let me know what you think

Regards

Bali

Atlantia · 22nd December 2008, 03:49 PM

Hi Bali,

Well, its not bad, but the head is obviously on 'backwards' and I'm not 100% sure its a fighting 'Saddle' axe (Tabar) and not just a remounted woodsmans axe. Any decoration on the head? Looks to have some age, probobly not too modern.
I Like the shaft, from what I can make out. Looks like the Kashmir rosette as decoration? Widens towards the back end to help with slippage, thats a good sign. Shaft is well done, looks 'right'
Might be worth a cheapish bid as a bit of a project.

Gene

P.S. had a closer look and there might be some incised lines decorating the blade! Overall I'd say it looks ok, I'd guess its a later one (towards the end ot the 19th/beginning of the 20th) and its probobly worth an offer.

Battara · 22nd December 2008, 05:44 PM

Yeah, I too think the head is on backwards.....

Tim Simmons · 22nd December 2008, 06:50 PM

I am not at all sure the blade is on upside down. There does not seem to be any old disturbance to the rivets on the halft. Which would have to be removed to take out the rod and knob finial. It is well worth an offer to my mind as long as it is a bargian. It will probably clean up well.

Sikh_soldier · 22nd December 2008, 06:55 PM

Hi guys,

thank you for your carefull observations, I totally missed the fact that it was upside down,
why would this be?, and if it has been replaced with a newer head can it be easily taken off and put back right?

Could anyone please PM me an average price I should offer, I have been stung before, and have no idea to its value.

Thanks everyone

Regards
Bally

Tim Simmons · 22nd December 2008, 07:03 PM

Sadly I no longer have this axe or the pics. Indian stuff never stays long with me. In this link the black and white pic shows a similar upside down type of axe head. This type of axe is often described as rare by some collectors and dealers so it might be a good idea to make a sensible offer, 2-3 of ponies?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=north+i

Atlantia · 22nd December 2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Sadly I no longer have this axe or the pics. Indian stuff never stays long with me. In this link the black and white pic shows a similar upside down type of axe head. This type of axe is often described as rare by some collectors and dealers so it might be a good idea to make a sensible offer, 2-3 of ponies?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=north+i

Hi Tim,
Am I going blind in my old age? I really can't see the similar upside down example mate?
The picture with the Katar in the middle?

Can I presume to make an observation about the one in this thread though?
If the head is the right way on, then when swung, a light or glancing blow will push the target away. Against armour it may not even penetrate or buckle.
Having the curve of the cutting edge lean towards the handle increases the efficiency of the cut on impact.
The head looks like a classic Tabar (or any numnber of small ecuropean axes) shape, but very plain, I do think its probobly OK, but I'd be a little wary as it does seem to have been messed around with. I can only assume that at some point the head was removed and it was stored long enough that it changed hands whilst in two pieces.
I dont think the handle is a replacement, the rosette studs look ok and the fact that the handle widens towards the grip end is something that is very unlikely to be a home made effort by someone who then put the head on the wrong way around.

Yes a couple of ponies or a little more seems fine ;-)
Nice Axe for that! Would you adam and eve it?

DhaDha · 22nd December 2008, 11:48 PM

[QUOTE=Atlantia]Hi Bali,
and I'm not 100% sure its a fighting 'Saddle' axe (Tabar) and not just a remounted woodsmans axe.

Hi, I'd love to know how to tell the difference. I've always wanted to add a Tabar to my collection. Any suggestions?

Cheers

Sikh_soldier · 23rd December 2008, 12:26 AM

Thanks everyone, very informative, are there any other formites who agree or disagree: is it the original head or not?

Also anyone hazzard a guess on the age?

Anymore info will be greatly appreciated, the auction house closes for christmas soon, and I have to make an offer soon

Thank you all, and by the way loving the ol Cockney slang

Regards
Bally

Atlantia · 23rd December 2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sikh_soldier

Thanks everyone, very informative, are there any other formites who agree or disagree: is it the original head or not?

Also anyone hazzard a guess on the age?

Anymore info will be greatly appreciated, the auction house closes for christmas soon, and I have to make an offer soon

Thank you all, and by the way loving the ol Cockney slang

Regards
Bally

OK, here are my uneducated guesses, northern Indian, I'd say right at the top, Kashmir (do these go right into Afghanistan?). Date, and its going to be very general! I'd say post 1880 and pre 1940 (and its hard to tell of course without handling it) and I would say that the weight of probability is that the head IS original, but has been put back on the wrong way around.
I would guess that the head would come back off fairly easily, quite possibly as kronckew said the little finial will unscrew. Possibly it was broken off and whoever repaired it put the head on that way?
In any event I find I like it more every time I revisit the thread. If you can get it reasonably cheap then I'd say go for it!

P.S
Bally
If you get it you must come back tell us how much and make us all jealous!!

Sikh_soldier · 23rd December 2008, 12:54 AM

Hi everyone

Thanks for the congrats David, very nice of you to say so.

Well Atlantia I feel the same way, it grows on me, but it will cost me more like a ton, than a few ponies, so I have to be sure, (its also a few hours drive away

)

but I am beginning to lean towards making an offer....

Atlantia · 23rd December 2008, 12:28 AM

[QUOTE=DhaDha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Bali,
and I'm not 100% sure its a fighting 'Saddle' axe (Tabar) and not just a remounted woodsmans axe.

Hi, I'd love to know how to tell the difference. I've always wanted to add a Tabar to my collection. Any suggestions?

Cheers

I do think this one is alright, its just that I was instantly suspicious when I saw the head that way around, and I've got a few antique axe heads that are that general shape and are definately not Tabars.
Now I'm really no expert on these, but I do like axes. I think that generally these will have some decoration on the blades. From elaborate koftgari, carving etc right down to just simple punched decoration or incised lines etc. Whereas, a woodsmans axe certainly wont. Well even European battle axes are often undecorated.
I think there looks like some patterns under the rust on this one, some borders etc

22nd December 2008, 02:45 PM	#1
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Nice Indo Persian Axe Hi everyone, I have been away from the forums of late, with the last year of my degree taking me away from what is actualy important in life. However, now that I have graduated (and unemployed hopefully temporarily!) I am back! This axe went unsold at a local auction house and I was considering making an offer, but as many of you know I am very inexperienced, this may be my first axe! I am confused to its age, is it a nice old example (18th to 19th century), a fake, or just a nice modern example. Sorry for the poor pictures, let me know what you think Regards Bali Attached Images

22nd December 2008, 03:49 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Bali, Well, its not bad, but the head is obviously on 'backwards' and I'm not 100% sure its a fighting 'Saddle' axe (Tabar) and not just a remounted woodsmans axe. Any decoration on the head? Looks to have some age, probobly not too modern. I Like the shaft, from what I can make out. Looks like the Kashmir rosette as decoration? Widens towards the back end to help with slippage, thats a good sign. Shaft is well done, looks 'right' Might be worth a cheapish bid as a bit of a project. Gene P.S. had a closer look and there might be some incised lines decorating the blade! Overall I'd say it looks ok, I'd guess its a later one (towards the end ot the 19th/beginning of the 20th) and its probobly worth an offer. Last edited by Atlantia; 22nd December 2008 at 04:13 PM.

22nd December 2008, 06:55 PM	#5
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Upside down axe! Hi guys, thank you for your carefull observations, I totally missed the fact that it was upside down, why would this be?, and if it has been replaced with a newer head can it be easily taken off and put back right? Could anyone please PM me an average price I should offer, I have been stung before, and have no idea to its value. Thanks everyone Regards Bally

22nd December 2008, 05:44 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Yeah, I too think the head is on backwards.....

22nd December 2008, 06:50 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I am not at all sure the blade is on upside down. There does not seem to be any old disturbance to the rivets on the halft. Which would have to be removed to take out the rod and knob finial. It is well worth an offer to my mind as long as it is a bargian. It will probably clean up well.

22nd December 2008, 07:03 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Sadly I no longer have this axe or the pics. Indian stuff never stays long with me. In this link the black and white pic shows a similar upside down type of axe head. This type of axe is often described as rare by some collectors and dealers so it might be a good idea to make a sensible offer, 2-3 of ponies? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=north+i

22nd December 2008, 11:48 PM	#8
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 165	[QUOTE=Atlantia]Hi Bali, and I'm not 100% sure its a fighting 'Saddle' axe (Tabar) and not just a remounted woodsmans axe. Hi, I'd love to know how to tell the difference. I've always wanted to add a Tabar to my collection. Any suggestions? Cheers

23rd December 2008, 12:26 AM	#9
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Thanks everyone, very informative, are there any other formites who agree or disagree: is it the original head or not? Also anyone hazzard a guess on the age? Anymore info will be greatly appreciated, the auction house closes for christmas soon, and I have to make an offer soon Thank you all, and by the way loving the ol Cockney slang Regards Bally

23rd December 2008, 12:54 AM	#11
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Hi everyone Thanks for the congrats David, very nice of you to say so. Well Atlantia I feel the same way, it grows on me, but it will cost me more like a ton, than a few ponies, so I have to be sure, (its also a few hours drive away ) but I am beginning to lean towards making an offer....