Chinese weapons or potato masher and a fireplace tool

kino · 19th April 2010, 01:26 AM

Are these circa boxer rebellion weapons, chinese tong weapons or perhaps replicas made for the tourist trade. They look or made to look old. The one with the hook is 21 inches in length and at its widest part is 4.5 inches.
The mace is heavy, 16.5 inches in length, with the business end having a diameter at 2 inches. School me.

fearn · 19th April 2010, 02:47 AM

I can't tell from the pictures, but a mace can be a "genuine weapon" if it's heavy and dents skull-like objects. As for whether they are the age claimed, I can't tell from the pictures you provided.

Neat objects, though.

Best,

F

Gavin Nugent · 19th April 2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I can't tell from the pictures, but a mace can be a "genuine weapon" if it's heavy and dents skull-like objects. As for whether they are the age claimed, I can't tell from the pictures you provided.

Neat objects, though.

Best,

F

I agree, from the images it is hard to tell and based on this, my thoughts...

The top piece I wouldn't consider genuine at all, of genuine small hafted weapons I have handed, all handle fittings were tightly pressed/forged in place. This piece seems reliant on the timber holding the two ferrules in place. The haft shows correct faceting too but lacks taper and the external wear doesn't seem consistant with the inside/grooves/joint wear...

The mace I am 35%in favour of. The age and construction looks great right up to where the head joins the haft...it then looks to screw in place or similar??? Certainly is not how I would have expected it to join together. The haft does have some nice taper which is good. A shame too that the head facets are cleaned the way they are, more could have been guessed from its original appearance.

Again, just some quick thoughts based on images.

Gav

katana · 19th April 2010, 12:01 PM

Not my field, but I have seen a mace almost identical to the one shown, also attributed to the time of the Boxers. Where the shaft meets the facetted head there seems to be a gap. Perhaps due to the 'uneven' surface of the area to which it is attached. I'm wondering whether the bronze / brass head was cast directly onto the shaft.

Regards David

kino · 19th April 2010, 07:20 PM

Thanks for the opinions.

Katana,
The mace head is ferrous iron/metal. It doesn't seem to be screwed in.

Gav,
It is too bad that the mace head had been cleaned.
I wonder what a bath in Ferric chloride would reveal. Not that I would, just a thought.

VANDOO · 19th April 2010, 10:35 PM

THESE ARE DEFINITELY CHINESE (I FEEL SAFE SAYING THAT)

ONE FORGEING TECKNIQUE SOMETIMES USED WAS TO PASS THE HEATED END OF THE SHAFT THRU THE HANDLE OR HEAD AND PEEN IT OUT TO HOLD IT SECURELY. AS WE CAN'T SEE IF THE MACE HEAD WAS FIXED BY PASSING THE SHAFT THRU AND PEENING I CAN'T COMMENT ON IT.
STRANGELY ENOUGH I HAVE FOUND MOST WEAPONS BROUGHT BACK FROM THE BOXER REBELLION TO BE IN MUCH BETTER SHAPE THAN THOSE THAT STAYED IN CHINA. I HAVE HEARD OF WEAPONS BEING BURRIED OR HIDDEN SO PERHAPS THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MACE. THE OTHER WEAPON APPEARS TO HAVE FARED MUCH BETTER. SO PERHAPS ONE WAS BROUGHT BACK IN GOOD SHAPE FROM THE BOXER REBELLION AND THE OTHER ONE BROUGHT BACK LATER OR IT WAS DUG UP FOR THE REBELLION

. MYSTERIES MAKE COLLECTING MORE INTERESTING BUT LACK OF PROVENANCE CAN ALSO BE FRUSTRATING.

19th April 2010, 01:26 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Chinese weapons or potato masher and a fireplace tool Are these circa boxer rebellion weapons, chinese tong weapons or perhaps replicas made for the tourist trade. They look or made to look old. The one with the hook is 21 inches in length and at its widest part is 4.5 inches. The mace is heavy, 16.5 inches in length, with the business end having a diameter at 2 inches. School me. Attached Images

19th April 2010, 12:01 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Not my field, but I have seen a mace almost identical to the one shown, also attributed to the time of the Boxers. Where the shaft meets the facetted head there seems to be a gap. Perhaps due to the 'uneven' surface of the area to which it is attached. I'm wondering whether the bronze / brass head was cast directly onto the shaft. Regards David Attached Images

19th April 2010, 02:47 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I can't tell from the pictures, but a mace can be a "genuine weapon" if it's heavy and dents skull-like objects. As for whether they are the age claimed, I can't tell from the pictures you provided. Neat objects, though. Best, F

19th April 2010, 07:20 PM	#5
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Thanks for the opinions. Katana, The mace head is ferrous iron/metal. It doesn't seem to be screwed in. Gav, It is too bad that the mace head had been cleaned. I wonder what a bath in Ferric chloride would reveal. Not that I would, just a thought.

19th April 2010, 10:35 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THESE ARE DEFINITELY CHINESE (I FEEL SAFE SAYING THAT) ONE FORGEING TECKNIQUE SOMETIMES USED WAS TO PASS THE HEATED END OF THE SHAFT THRU THE HANDLE OR HEAD AND PEEN IT OUT TO HOLD IT SECURELY. AS WE CAN'T SEE IF THE MACE HEAD WAS FIXED BY PASSING THE SHAFT THRU AND PEENING I CAN'T COMMENT ON IT. STRANGELY ENOUGH I HAVE FOUND MOST WEAPONS BROUGHT BACK FROM THE BOXER REBELLION TO BE IN MUCH BETTER SHAPE THAN THOSE THAT STAYED IN CHINA. I HAVE HEARD OF WEAPONS BEING BURRIED OR HIDDEN SO PERHAPS THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MACE. THE OTHER WEAPON APPEARS TO HAVE FARED MUCH BETTER. SO PERHAPS ONE WAS BROUGHT BACK IN GOOD SHAPE FROM THE BOXER REBELLION AND THE OTHER ONE BROUGHT BACK LATER OR IT WAS DUG UP FOR THE REBELLION . MYSTERIES MAKE COLLECTING MORE INTERESTING BUT LACK OF PROVENANCE CAN ALSO BE FRUSTRATING.