Knife for I.D. Chinese? Tibetan? Bhutanese?

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
The comments say it all.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. No point in excess images for this item.

[Norman McCormick]

Photo removed

[GIO]

The blade reminds me that of a western bayonet.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by GIO

The blade reminds me that of a western bayonet.

Hi,
Yup.
Regards,
Norman.

[Ren Ren]

I'm afraid I have bad news for you! This is a Chinese fantasy in the style of a Tibetan knife. This was done literally yesterday and deliberately aged.
Sincerely
Serge

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

I'm afraid I have bad news for you! This is a Chinese fantasy in the style of a Tibetan knife. This was done literally yesterday and deliberately aged.
Sincerely
Serge

Hi,
Could be, not my area at all. Seems like a lot of effort for very little return. Thanks for looking.
Regards,
Norman.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by GIO

The blade reminds me that of a western bayonet.

It looks like the guy who made this thing was inspired in his dreams by a British Pattern 1907 bayonet but didn't have enough steel to make it long enough. And needless to say lacked the equipment to do a factory-grade milling job.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
The comments say it all.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. No point in excess images for this item.

hello norman .
pleas epost more detailed pictures of this item.
your knife is antique.
it is from Amdo,
it has nothing to do with chinese and is not junk.
is not fake and is an established type of knife and sword made by peoples inhabiting Amdo.
the veriaiton of these tibetian weapons is extreme.
amdo swords generally like to have a cup feature on the hilt that will couver the scabbard.
these knives were till the modern era carried as personal weapons, they fall in a catagory between belt knives and swords and generaly are a mix of each weapons features.
they are worn in isolated parts of tibet even today and even under such conditins and duress as the tibetians are forced to live such items are still ethnic indicators and items of status.

i dont know the specific ethnic group that makes this style as liturature on these knives of any accuracy is nonexsistant and even the tibetians themselves generally dont recognise all the styles apart from their obvious regional differences due to the size and isloaiton of the different ethnic groups.
amdo, kham and the lhasa tibetians all have a style they recognise but to get more informaiton you would need to ask amdo people and even then the amdo area is huge and diverse.

the tibetian cultural realm has such a vast array of these that are undocumented.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Ausjulius,
Thanks for your interest. Here are a couple of photos. Will post more.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Ausjulius,
Some more photos. The edge is sharp with the ‘ricasso’ on one side possibly due to sharpening that one side more than the other. There is a drain hole on the bottom of the scabbard and signs of copper brazing on the hilt and scabbard. I would appreciate your further ideas on age and origin. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. If you need more photos please don’t hesitate to ask.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Ausjulius,
More photos. The blade appears to have had many sharpenings.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Tim Simmons]

Excellent, there we are, learning something new.

[Norman McCormick]

Thanks Tim. One more photo.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Ausjulius,
Some more photos. The edge is sharp with the ‘ricasso’ on one side possibly due to sharpening that one side more than the other. There is a drain hole on the bottom of the scabbard and signs of copper brazing on the hilt and scabbard. I would appreciate your further ideas on age and origin. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. If you need more photos please don’t hesitate to ask.

hi thanks yes 19th or 20th century.
with iron fittings like that id say age is older pre chinese invasion most likely. so prior to the 1950s.
after that time you see more and more white metal or bass or copper combined with steel on the knives from this area - (northern amdo) fittings and almost no simple carved steel fittings. infact id say it is without a doubt prior to the second world war and could be prior to that.. these areas are just so isloated.

i cant say the region for sure but id say its north east amdo or northern central amdo, amdo is as large as the u-tsang part of tibet.
knives like this were carried for self defence. different ethnic groups of tibetian peoples carry them differently too. some hand them some put them in their belts almost horizontally. ect. you can see images of the 20th century in some areas where every peroson is carrying a large knife or short sword on their waist so there is a great variaiton in quality.. the more ornate can be of silver gold and folded steel blades, some have lizard, toad or fish skin.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

hi thanks yes 19th or 20th century.
with iron fittings like that id say age is older pre chinese invasion most likely. so prior to the 1950s.
after that time you see more and more white metal or bass or copper combined with steel on the knives from this area - (northern amdo) fittings and almost no simple carved steel fittings. infact id say it is without a doubt prior to the second world war and could be prior to that.. these areas are just so isloated.

i cant say the region for sure but id say its north east amdo or northern central amdo, amdo is as large as the u-tsang part of tibet.
knives like this were carried for self defence. different ethnic groups of tibetian peoples carry them differently too. some hand them some put them in their belts almost horizontally. ect. you can see images of the 20th century in some areas where every peroson is carrying a large knife or short sword on their waist so there is a great variaiton in quality.. the more ornate can be of silver gold and folded steel blades, some have lizard, toad or fish skin.

Hi Ausjulius,
Many thanks for the additional information.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

I wanted to add that thanks to the information on my entry to this thread, with the info from JBG and Ausjulius noting my example as being a palag from Bhutan. With this I was able to find a bit more noting there were certain peculiarities in these, it seems mostly from the metallurgy of the blades and the makers (11 types named for these makers). While these were worn by priests it seems that examples used in war had a 'cross' (what form not specified) placed near the hilt on the blade.
These have not been made for some time, and only examples found are within museums or perhaps monasteries.
In 1912 Bhutan became recognized as an Indian princely state administratively in the British Raj, but warfare prior to this period seems to have been with neighboring regions Tibetan etc.

In the 1912 map, Bhutan is in green segments. The picture shows priest wearing one of these palag. The Bhutanese flag, land of the 'thunder dragon'.