Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th October 2013, 08:35 PM   #1
nKante
Member
 
nKante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 72
Default iron cuirass

I have always been interested in this West African cuirass. I have seen a few illustrations of them, and photos of 3 different pieces. Conrad Cairns briefly mentions this kind of defense in his book 'The African Knights'. Most of what I have seen is either padded garments, chain mail, or the combination of them both. My question is, were they worn on the outside of the padded garment or underneath. Outside would have provided cushion from the heavy iron against the skin. But I think the big iron plate would heat up rather quick in the African sun. I have looking through a lot of early photos of Sudanic warriors. I came across 2 that might show metal plates.
Attached Images
 
nKante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2013, 12:33 PM   #2
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Sadly, a few years ago when one of these was on the market I did not purchase it. I have been kicking myself ever since.

These are associated with Bornu, Denham illustrated one as I recall.

I'd be interested to see the couple of photos you mentioned. It's an intriguing question. I'll have a look through my files and see if I can turn anything up.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2013, 07:53 PM   #3
nKante
Member
 
nKante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 72
Default

Now remember I said 'might' be an iron plate. To my eye, the dark area around the one warrior's torso seems to be an armored belly band. It could be part of the pattern on the robe, but I think I see a shadow underneath. It could be wishful thinking, but the shape, shadow and edging make me think that it is a separate rigid object and not fabric like his partners.
Attached Images
 
nKante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2013, 09:17 PM   #4
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Certainly possible, but as you say, hard to see in that particular image. At a guess, it's actually leather banded armour (kutufi). Although your image depicts Sudanese rather than Bornu or western Sahel troops I'm more familiar with.

My own personal opinion, and this only applies for the actual cuirass you posted, is that it was worn under the lifida, as was maille.

The lifida itself is not a single element. But can be made up of several garments. Usually these consist of at least the long out jacket (bantan lifidi) and a wide band around the waist (the kumakumi).

Underneath additional padding could be worn as well. The main purpose was defense against arrows, which were typically poisoned.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2013, 12:28 AM   #5
nKante
Member
 
nKante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 72
Default

Ok! It would make sense to wear the cuirass over a padded under garment, and under a padded over garment. And after I looked again you are correct, they are Sudanese warriors. Know I have to reseach kutufi armor.

Thanks Ian

Last edited by nKante; 1st November 2013 at 01:08 AM.
nKante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2013, 12:07 PM   #6
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nKante
Ok! It would make sense to wear the cuirass over a padded under garment, and under a padded over garment. And after I looked again you are correct, they are Sudanese warriors. Know I have to reseach kutufi armor.

Thanks Ian
No problem, just a note though on the terminology, what I listed above is Hausa, in a Sudanese context it will be something else.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2013, 11:32 AM   #7
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

Here is an image of a postcard issued by the excellent Powell-Cotton Museum, Birchington, Kent that may interest...
Attached Images
 
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2013, 09:51 PM   #8
nKante
Member
 
nKante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 72
Default

Awesome. Thank you!
nKante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2014, 08:34 PM   #9
nKante
Member
 
nKante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 72
Default

OK. Finally finished it. I took some liberties with it but I am very pleased with the overall product. I used street sign aluminum in place of iron plates. I replaced the iron rivets with brass screws peened over square nuts, which I think gives it visual weight. I made a set of rigid shoulder straps but they were very uncomfortable to move in. I tried a few things, including chains, but I settled on rawhide straps with attached plates. The worst part was sewing the edging on, which is made of strips I cut from a West African mud clothe I had. The pictures don't show but there are 2 set of 8 grommets on the top of the front plate. Since I was unable to physically measure the person that I made the armor for, I wanted some adjustability when attaching the shoulder straps. That is also the reason I decided to open both sides. I tucked a strip of the mud clothe into the bindings of the shoulder plate to give it some padding.
Attached Images
   
nKante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2014, 09:02 PM   #10
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

I'm glad to see this thread coming back to life.

The finished product, if not exactly like the originals, is an interesting take on a little known subject and a visually pleasing result.

I am adding here a couple more originals. One that was on auction some years ago, another from the MET.

In the next post I will add some interesting text from Robinson's "Oriental Armour".
Attached Images
  
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2014, 09:06 PM   #11
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

The book excerpt. It deals in part with an earlier topic on this thread of mail over or under cloth components.
Attached Images
   
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2014, 08:50 PM   #12
LJ
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 93
Default

I came across this reference last year:
MacLeod, O., 1912 Chiefs and Cities of Central Africa. Across Lake Chad by way of British, French, and German territories. Pp 14 + 322. Edinburgh & London: Blackwood & sons.

A ‘Native-made iron cuirass” is illustrated on p.269, in a section describing the visit to the town of Fika (northern Nigeria) during March 1911. The armour is not described, only figured. Apparently, this piece of armour, together with a hide cuirass from Musgum collected during the same voyage, is in the Pitt Rivers museum.
Attached Images
 
LJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2014, 10:07 AM   #13
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJ
I came across this reference last year:
MacLeod, O., 1912 Chiefs and Cities of Central Africa. Across Lake Chad by way of British, French, and German territories. Pp 14 + 322. Edinburgh & London: Blackwood & sons.

A ‘Native-made iron cuirass” is illustrated on p.269, in a section describing the visit to the town of Fika (northern Nigeria) during March 1911. The armour is not described, only figured. Apparently, this piece of armour, together with a hide cuirass from Musgum collected during the same voyage, is in the Pitt Rivers museum.
The image in the first post of this thread is the Pitt Rivers example.

I'm attaching some additional views of another museum example, can't recall off the top of my head which one! But it shows the full construction nicely.
Attached Images
    
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2014, 12:39 AM   #14
nKante
Member
 
nKante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 72
Default

WOW. Those art the best pictures I have ever seen of one. Some of those long, 'nail' looking rivets are just plain scary.
nKante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2014, 10:44 AM   #15
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

They are a serious piece of kit and quite effective I'd imagine combined with the quilted armour. Couple this with a lance and a hefty takouba and you've got a picture quite a bit different than what most people would expect to find south of the Sahara.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2014, 09:57 PM   #16
nKante
Member
 
nKante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 72
Default

Figured I post myself wearing it with the rest of my panoply.
Attached Images
  
nKante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2014, 09:45 PM   #17
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
I'm attaching some additional views of another museum example, can't recall off the top of my head which one! But it shows the full construction nicely.
The images are from The British Museum.
http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...bjectid=621141
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2015, 07:27 AM   #18
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

I just realized I have an incredibly clear image of one of these cuirass being worn from 1905 I never posted. It is from northern Cameroon.
Attached Images
 
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2015, 01:22 AM   #19
nKante
Member
 
nKante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 72
Default

NICE. I love the high collar on the quilted robe. This might be my new profile picture.
nKante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2017, 12:29 PM   #20
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

From "History of Mankind" by F. Ratzel 1898.
Attached Images
 
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2017, 01:36 PM   #21
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
From "History of Mankind" by F. Ratzel 1898.
Thanks! Its a very similar sketch to the Denham one. The high neck protector I think was leather, I haven't seen an extant example with one, however mine clearly has holes where it could be attached.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2017, 03:34 PM   #22
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

A bit larger image, no text though.
Attached Images
 
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2017, 03:49 PM   #23
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Its based from the Denham sketch, including all the objects pictured. Friend was kind enough to send me a quick pic. Looks like the later book simply copied and changed up the pose a bit.
Attached Images
 
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.