Old Omani Saif

[TVV]

I am really excited to share this old Omani saif, as one of these has been on my wish list forever. Here are the measurements:
Entire length: 36 inches (91.44 cm)
Blade length: 25 inches (63.50 cm)
Blade width at base: 2 inches (5.08 cm)
Weight: 1 lb 11.5 oz (780 grams)

The hilt is the typical old style hilt, with three rivets. The grip is hexagonal, and so is the pommel, with silver decoration along the edges. Whatever other covering and decoration may have been there is long gone.

The blade has a single central fuller, with a distal taper and surprisingly thin. It is in great polish, and perhaps most importantly, entirely made of wootz. I did not do a great job of bringing the pattern out and wootz is always hard to photograph for me, but I believe it is clearly visible in the pictures.

This is not the only old Omani saif with a wootz blade, as there is at least one such sword in the sold section of Oriental Arms. Indian blades were of course popular since the early years of Muslim conquest all through the entire Middle Ages, as mentioned by Nicolle in "Early Islamic Arms". I suspect that Indian wootz blades remained valued in Oman and the Omani holdings on the East African Coast up until Solingen's prolific production offered a cheaper alternative without compromising the quality, ultimately leading to the adoption of the longer style blade and hilt.

What are your thoughts on this sword's age and origin?

Teodor

[Iain]

A lovely piece, I too have always liked the form of these and the wootz blade is quite clearly visible. I'm surprised it is fullered, other wootz blades I have seen in these mounts have been without fullers.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...I+BATTLE+SWORD This thread deals exclusively with this weapon. It is the Sayf Yamaani ...

The old Omani Battle Sword with the addition of possibly an Indian blade...or a wootz blade from somewhere. The two holes are blocked by rivets on the ends of the crossguard whereas on other examples it is suggested they were anchor points for tassles. The holes in the grip are usually three ~ The two lower holes for constructing the grip of hexagonal or occasionally tubular metal to a wooden core and the upper hole near the pommel as a wrist strap hole. On age you can glide up and down the piano keys all day on age and also the same as to originality arguably as far back down the line as 751AD as the Ibaathi Battle Sword against the Abaasid in Oman. Other guestimates are without secure data and attempt to place this weapon at about 12th C again without foundation... as recently as about 10 years ago some thought it was Portuguese and others since have suggested from the Saladin type.

Personally I ride with the team who suggest a much earlier provenance and I see nothing wrong with the Ibn Julanda ticket of 751 AD making this virtually another Sword of the Prophet form and with the name suggesting Yemeni provenance (Sayf Yemaani)it scores equally well in that regard.

The blade however causes much uncertainty since several of these weapons have been recently twinned with blades...and very expertly done ... from other regions. I would say that if the blade is a genuine item it could go back a few hundred years ...There is no scabbard? There are no blade marks. It does leave itself somewhat open .... Tell me where you got it and I will be more forthright...

When you say ~ I suspect that Indian wootz blades remained valued in Oman and the Omani holdings on the East African Coast up until Solingen's prolific production offered a cheaper alternative without compromising the quality, ultimately leading to the adoption of the longer style blade and hilt.

This is completely incorrect since the both Omani longhilts: the longer style of straight blade is a dancing sword and pageant only and the equivalent sabre in curved mode and single edge is nothing to do with the Sayf Yemaani whatsoever. To muddle up these swords on both price and Solingen production is a very unsatisfactory precedent as each must be viewed on its own.

Readers may be aware that I have placed favourable comparison between the dancing sword and the Sayf Yemaani but this is only a historical linkage for example; the two have both got 2 sharp edges and they both have a flat spatulate tip section and both use the Terrs shield but the two swords have an entirely different function and one is a Battle Sword whilst the other has never been in a fight! Your para on Solingen and price, therefor, misses the point.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[TVV]

Thank you for your responses.

Iain,

Yes, the fuller is unusual, not sure what that would signify though.

Ibrahiim,

Your passion about ethnographic arms is admirable and overall an asset to this forum. I am well aware of your hypothesis about Omani swords - after all, the whole discussion started in a 12-page thread for a sword I posted years ago. I am sure you are also aware that I am among the many members here who simply find that hypothesis factually incorrect. I do not expect you to change your position, but you should also understand that posting the same hypothesis over and over and over again will not make it true or make us accept it. Based on that, I will ask that we avoid the topic of your theory about the "battle" and "dance" swords here, as doing so will be entirely unproductive at this point.

Back to the subject of the sword in hand: everything is possible, including a marriage of hilt and blade. I am sure that there is such a practice in Oman, and to deny so would be naïve. The blade is of a shape that fits the older Omani sword shape and not much else. Are you aware of any Indian, Persian or Central Asian swords that have short wide thin wootz blades that fit the measurements I gave above, because I cannot? The fact that it is made of wootz is also important in another manner. The crucible steel technology has been recreated in modern times, thanks to the effort of researchers and bladesmiths, some of whom are members here. Based on what I have seen, just knowing how to replicate the process does not make producing crucible steel easy or cheap, however. So in the worst possible case, this could be a marriage of an old hilt with an old blade from another Omani sword, though the pitch inside the hilt looks to have some age and the blade width fits the sword perfectly.

Regards,
Teodor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by TVV

Thank you for your responses.

Iain,

Yes, the fuller is unusual, not sure what that would signify though.

Ibrahiim,

Your passion about ethnographic arms is admirable and overall an asset to this forum. I am well aware of your hypothesis about Omani swords - after all, the whole discussion started in a 12-page thread for a sword I posted years ago. I am sure you are also aware that I am among the many members here who simply find that hypothesis factually incorrect. I do not expect you to change your position, but you should also understand that posting the same hypothesis over and over and over again will not make it true or make us accept it. Based on that, I will ask that we avoid the topic of your theory about the "battle" and "dance" swords here, as doing so will be entirely unproductive at this point.

Back to the subject of the sword in hand: everything is possible, including a marriage of hilt and blade. I am sure that there is such a practice in Oman, and to deny so would be naïve. The blade is of a shape that fits the older Omani sword shape and not much else. Are you aware of any Indian, Persian or Central Asian swords that have short wide thin wootz blades that fit the measurements I gave above, because I cannot? The fact that it is made of wootz is also important in another manner. The crucible steel technology has been recreated in modern times, thanks to the effort of researchers and bladesmiths, some of whom are members here. Based on what I have seen, just knowing how to replicate the process does not make producing crucible steel easy or cheap, however. So in the worst possible case, this could be a marriage of an old hilt with an old blade from another Omani sword, though the pitch inside the hilt looks to have some age and the blade width fits the sword perfectly.

Regards,
Teodor

Whatever you think about threads gone by and my place in Forum it remains a free place to comment on the discussion of items and thus I have exercised that right. I find it obscure to present a sword but to expect to launch with it spurious details about other swords under that umbrella. It simply isn't right. Your comment about price and Solingen blades is incorrect and unrelated to topic nor should you expect to try that on unchecked. Why expect it to be inoculated against rebuke.

No evidence exists to support your point about cheaper blades..Solingen did not make Omani dancing blades and the curved sword with the same hilt has an entirely different provenance. In one paragraph you cannot expect a trashing of half of the swords of Oman just to pass quietly and without comment...That is not how Forum works. However, if you think you are right, please make the case. It's a Forum.

What I suspect you have here is something like a 16th C /17thC Hilt with a recent replacement blade. Examination of the material holding the blade firm is extremely difficult to guage when the blade was fitted...Actually these swords have no glue or tar as the blade is held in place by two rivets through a hexagonal two piece metal tube and a wooden core and through the tang...unlike Khanjars blades which are glued/tar fixed.

These blades are not usually thin... They are normally thicker and stiff ...There is normally about an inch of flexibility only as these were chopping weapons. If you can disclose where you got the sword I will be closer to knowing who did the blade fit up. That can be done by PM or stick it on the thread.

[TVV]

Ibrahiim,

I am not going to get dragged into a pointless debate about your theory which contradicts all the period accounts, drawings and existent examples of Omani swords.

If you are trying to imply that a master bladesmith of Rick Furrer's ability is making kattara blades to fit to old hilts, you are seriously risking losing whatever credibility left you have here, with me at least. I am afraid I am reaching the point where I will be forced to simply start ignoring your posts as spam.

Teodor

[S.Al-Anizi]

Beautiful Piece Teodor,

A certain private collection in Abu Dhabi contains at least 4 of these swords that I have seen, all sporting wootz blades.

I suspect that many of these were longer once and became shorter due to re-hilting IMO.

Cheers!

[TVV]

Originally Posted by S.Al-Anizi

Beautiful Piece Teodor,

A certain private collection in Abu Dhabi contains at least 4 of these swords that I have seen, all sporting wootz blades.

I suspect that many of these were longer once and became shorter due to re-hilting IMO.

Cheers!

Thank you! As Robert Hales illustrates on p. 361 of his book, extensive rehilting was common for these swords. This could have led to slight shortening.