Two dha, Birmese and Laotian Hmong Montagnard?

werecow · 6th July 2024, 10:23 PM

I have these two dha/daab/dhaab/dharb variants. I've had the smaller one for a while now and the larger one was delivered to me in person today by a fellow collector who I know lurks on this forum. I thought I'd use the opportunity to document both swords here and ask for your input on the region, culture/ethnographic group, and period of origin, or any other information you could add, since I have had some difficulty finding sources on mainland SE Asian weapons.

__________________________________________________ __________

The smaller one was sold as Vietnamese but I suspect that it is Birmese given the relatively short grip and the presence of a fuller on the blade. But that is just a best guess based on very limited data.

Some stats, for those of you who like that sort of thing:

77cm total out of the scabbard.
Sword 472 grams.
Scabbard 130 grams.

24cm grip.
Tapers slightly from 25mm near the blade to 22mm near the end.

53 cm blade with a very shallow fuller. Spine transitions from flat to triangular about 24cm from the base of the blade (but no false edge).
Profile tapers very slightly from 22mm to 21mm and then swells slightly to 24mm at the cutting portion of the blade.
Distal taper from 7.5 mm at the base to 3mm at the end of the fuller and 2 mm just before the tip.
Maximum curvature 30mm measured by taking the distance beween the blade spine and a straight line from the back side of the tip of the blade to the back end of the pommel.
POB 6.5cm from the base.

Silver fittings on the grip and scabbard. Red velvety or felt cloth on the scabbard mouth. The scabbard is a reddish wood and tapers distally from 28mm at the mouth to 12mm at the tip. Some loose strands of silver wire at intervals around the scabbard.

Not sure if the grip is bone or ivory, though I'm guessing the former. The blade is a bit worn but the construction is solid.

__________________________________________________ __________

The longer one was sold as a Hmong / Laotian Montagnard dha. Blade is laminated. No scabbard for this one. Hollow grip, maybe bamboo? Nice copper or brass wirework with swirls and mesh on the grip with a miniature "tsuba" (I don't know the local term).

Stats:

113cm total.
557 grams.

65cm grip including the tsuba, which is .5cm.
Grip is approximately round and 23mm thick on the wooden part, 26mm on the wire grip part.
Tsuba is 43mm wide along the blade and 34mm along the orthogonal axis.

48cm blade.
Blade profile starts at 21mm, then tapers to 19mm and then swells to 25mm.
Distal taper from 9mm at the base to 1.5mm just before the tip.
Maximum curvature 50mm measured by taking the distance beween the blade spine and a straight line from the back side of the tip of the blade to the back end of the pommel.
POB is exactly on the tsuba.

Very interesting sword (almost a polearm, but due to the overall size it still feels more like a sword).

__________________________________________________ __________

Both are quite sharp. More pictures to follow in my next two posts on this thread.

I'd love to know more about these two swords in particular and south east Asian swords in general, so any insight or background information you have, or any references you could recommend would be greatly appreciated.

I found the following threads on Montagnard dha useful so I'll link them here:

Montagnard Dha tribal association?
Montagnard Dha Sources
Hoping For Some Help Identifying the Origins of this SE Asian Highlands Weapon
what is it?
Montagnard Daab, Dha

werecow · 6th July 2024, 10:34 PM

Pictures #2 / 3.

werecow · 6th July 2024, 10:40 PM

Pictures #3/3.

Sajen · 7th July 2024, 10:00 AM

Very nice dhas!

And you're correct, the shorter one is Burmese and the other one, which I like very much, is a so-called Montagnard dha.
When you want to part with it, please let me know!

And yes, the handle material by the Burmese one seems to be ivory and by the Montagnard the grip seems to be made from bamboo.

Regards,
Detlef

werecow · 7th July 2024, 11:50 AM

Thanks for your input Detlef! I'm gonna enjoy it a bit first but maybe a few years down the road.

Some follow up questions:

Is the Hmong / Laos attribution indeed the most likely one?

Is there anything known about the handling of the Montagnard ones? It has the proportions of small polearms but feels more like a sword, which puts these in a sort of strange and intriguing no man's land for me. This one is light enough for single handed use, but presumably that is not how they were wielded, as the long grip makes it somewhat awkward.
If anyone knows of a youtube video that shows their use it would be instructive.

Iain · 7th July 2024, 04:44 PM

The so-called montagnard dha is not associated with the Hmong. It is from southern Laos, northern Cambodia and the border areas of Vietnam. Commonly the style is called after Attapeu in Laos which is a major regional center for both Lao and hill tribes.

This example is a hill tribes variant, the long handle is not for two handed use but rather a reflection of the multi purpose use of this sword. The long handle serves for common tasks like harvesting hard to reach fruit etc. They are used as single handed swords in combat.

The pattern of the casting is found also on shorter hilted swords.

Sajen · 7th July 2024, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow

If anyone knows of a youtube video that shows their use it would be instructive.

Here you go! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cck_02cUUc8

6th July 2024, 10:23 PM	#1
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 500	Two dha, Birmese and Laotian Hmong Montagnard? I have these two dha/daab/dhaab/dharb variants. I've had the smaller one for a while now and the larger one was delivered to me in person today by a fellow collector who I know lurks on this forum. I thought I'd use the opportunity to document both swords here and ask for your input on the region, culture/ethnographic group, and period of origin, or any other information you could add, since I have had some difficulty finding sources on mainland SE Asian weapons. __________________________________________________ __________ The smaller one was sold as Vietnamese but I suspect that it is Birmese given the relatively short grip and the presence of a fuller on the blade. But that is just a best guess based on very limited data. Some stats, for those of you who like that sort of thing: 77cm total out of the scabbard. Sword 472 grams. Scabbard 130 grams. 24cm grip. Tapers slightly from 25mm near the blade to 22mm near the end. 53 cm blade with a very shallow fuller. Spine transitions from flat to triangular about 24cm from the base of the blade (but no false edge). Profile tapers very slightly from 22mm to 21mm and then swells slightly to 24mm at the cutting portion of the blade. Distal taper from 7.5 mm at the base to 3mm at the end of the fuller and 2 mm just before the tip. Maximum curvature 30mm measured by taking the distance beween the blade spine and a straight line from the back side of the tip of the blade to the back end of the pommel. POB 6.5cm from the base. Silver fittings on the grip and scabbard. Red velvety or felt cloth on the scabbard mouth. The scabbard is a reddish wood and tapers distally from 28mm at the mouth to 12mm at the tip. Some loose strands of silver wire at intervals around the scabbard. Not sure if the grip is bone or ivory, though I'm guessing the former. The blade is a bit worn but the construction is solid. __________________________________________________ __________ The longer one was sold as a Hmong / Laotian Montagnard dha. Blade is laminated. No scabbard for this one. Hollow grip, maybe bamboo? Nice copper or brass wirework with swirls and mesh on the grip with a miniature "tsuba" (I don't know the local term). Stats: 113cm total. 557 grams. 65cm grip including the tsuba, which is .5cm. Grip is approximately round and 23mm thick on the wooden part, 26mm on the wire grip part. Tsuba is 43mm wide along the blade and 34mm along the orthogonal axis. 48cm blade. Blade profile starts at 21mm, then tapers to 19mm and then swells to 25mm. Distal taper from 9mm at the base to 1.5mm just before the tip. Maximum curvature 50mm measured by taking the distance beween the blade spine and a straight line from the back side of the tip of the blade to the back end of the pommel. POB is exactly on the tsuba. Very interesting sword (almost a polearm, but due to the overall size it still feels more like a sword). __________________________________________________ __________ Both are quite sharp. More pictures to follow in my next two posts on this thread. I'd love to know more about these two swords in particular and south east Asian swords in general, so any insight or background information you have, or any references you could recommend would be greatly appreciated. I found the following threads on Montagnard dha useful so I'll link them here: Montagnard Dha tribal association? Montagnard Dha Sources Hoping For Some Help Identifying the Origins of this SE Asian Highlands Weapon what is it? Montagnard Daab, Dha Attached Images Last edited by werecow; 6th July 2024 at 11:24 PM.

6th July 2024, 10:34 PM	#2
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 500	Pictures #2 / 3. Attached Images

6th July 2024, 10:40 PM	#3
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 500	Pictures #3/3. Attached Images

7th July 2024, 10:00 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Very nice dhas! And you're correct, the shorter one is Burmese and the other one, which I like very much, is a so-called Montagnard dha. When you want to part with it, please let me know! And yes, the handle material by the Burmese one seems to be ivory and by the Montagnard the grip seems to be made from bamboo. Regards, Detlef

7th July 2024, 11:50 AM	#5
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 500	Thanks for your input Detlef! I'm gonna enjoy it a bit first but maybe a few years down the road. Some follow up questions: Is the Hmong / Laos attribution indeed the most likely one? Is there anything known about the handling of the Montagnard ones? It has the proportions of small polearms but feels more like a sword, which puts these in a sort of strange and intriguing no man's land for me. This one is light enough for single handed use, but presumably that is not how they were wielded, as the long grip makes it somewhat awkward. If anyone knows of a youtube video that shows their use it would be instructive.

7th July 2024, 04:44 PM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	The so-called montagnard dha is not associated with the Hmong. It is from southern Laos, northern Cambodia and the border areas of Vietnam. Commonly the style is called after Attapeu in Laos which is a major regional center for both Lao and hill tribes. This example is a hill tribes variant, the long handle is not for two handed use but rather a reflection of the multi purpose use of this sword. The long handle serves for common tasks like harvesting hard to reach fruit etc. They are used as single handed swords in combat. The pattern of the casting is found also on shorter hilted swords.