Silver Badik with unusual triangular blade

[Roland_M]

Let me introduce this silver Badik with a well-made triangular blade. It was a very strange online buy from an auction house in Austria (Galerie Zacke). I placed my bid just for fun ~16 hours after the deadline, during the auction, and the bid was unreal low…winner.

The blade was covered with a dense layer of dark brown rust but no deep rust-pitting (pic 1). I polished the blade from grit 180->400->1000 to Steel wool from 00 to 0000. After around 15 hours of polishing (total loss of 2.3 Gramm material include the rust) the blade was ready for etching. For pattern welded steel I preferably use sodium persulfate (fine etch crystal), 20 Gramm in 100 mL distilled water (~70°C ) with a pad, brush or Syringe (pic 2).

I am unsure about the origin of the blade; could it be European, the tip of a small sword or so? The forging is very fine and flawless. The shape and the symmetry are close to perfection; one still can see the hammer strokes, one by another in a narrow row, breathtaking for me. It is obviously laminated steel but hard to see if folded mono-steel or pattern welded steel of more than one kind (pic 3 & 4). It needs special equipment to forge such a type of blade, like different hammers with v-shaped cuts as far as I know. This makes me believe, it could be European. What is the opinion of the experts here?

Another interesting fact is that the only tip of this blade is a permanent magnet, strong enough to lift up ~1 Gramm, my first magnetic blade.

One picture (5) shows another Badik with a more traditional pattern welded blade, which is very thin, with a razor sharp cutting edge and a sharp back edge. The forging is also skillful made but much coarser compared to the triangular blade.

What does the experts think about the origin of the blade and the age? All I know is written in the text and I am appreciative for any opinion.

Measurements:
Length of blade only: 27 cm
Height at base: 20mm
Thickness at base: 8.5 mm
Weight without sheath: 175 Gramm

Kind regards Roland

[kronckew]

i like that.

i have heard of knives that have been static on one location for a long time gaining magnetism as the iron slowly aligns itself with the local earth field. i set little credence in it until one pf mine did. it could pick up a small paper clip. can't remember which one it was now,

my badik no. one is simpler, like your other one, badek no. two is pamour bladed. note the swirl near the bolster, your black handled one seems to have a similar swirl in the pattern welding.

[CharlesS]

I would certainly have thought this was a European bayonet blade that had been cut down, but if that's a pamor pattern I am seeing in the pics, that throws out my theory.

Great, interesting, piece under any circumstances.

[Spunjer]

huh... i got a similar one. now this has my interest piqued. kinda like tres kantos from the Philippines. there was a label on mine that says "Senjata Tusuk, Sulawesi". if i'm not mistaken, that could be roughly translated as "stabbing weapon", which makes me wonder whoever wrote it probably made it up. but then again, you never know...
the blade is definitely laminated, Indo style. handle is made out of carabao horn. scabbard has rattan wraps, with the toe made out of bone or ivory, i'm not quite sure.
measurements is as follows:
length of blade = 9" (23cm)
total length in scabbard = 13.5" (35cm)
thanks for posting this, Roland!

[Roland_M]

Thank you very much Spunier for showing me your Badik with triangular blade.

I think, it is worth the effort to polish your blade and maybe etching it. The difference might be huge. Some people refuse to touch old blades but i think as japanese. A good blade must have a good polish.

But it is quite difficult to polish a triangular blade without destroying its shape. If you are unexperienced, it would not be the best blade to start with.

If you want, i can do the polishing job for you for nothing more than the shipping costs and maybe the sandpaper and Steel wool. I really like it and i still learning much about steel during the job.

Best wishes Roland

[Sajen]

Hello Roland,

never seen a badik like this, very unusual. I have a badik from Salayar island but with a starlike cross section, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=badik
The scabbard/fittings again very similar to one from my collection which I think is from Sulawasi. When you want I can post pictures from it.
Nice and unusual catch, congrats.

Regards,
Detlef

[Roland_M]

Hello Detlef,

Tank you for your warm words. I already know your blade, it was a reason to buy my one.
Here are some pictures of the sheath.
The Badik received sometimes a strong hit on the back of the hilt. I hope, it can be restored. I am looking for a specialst for this Job.

Best wishes Roland

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

there was a label on mine that says "Senjata Tusuk, Sulawesi". if i'm not mistaken, that could be roughly translated as "stabbing weapon", which makes me wonder whoever wrote it probably made it up. but then again, you never know...

Hello Ron,

yours is also a very nice and unusual example. "Tusuk" mean needle/spit so your translation is correct. I still would call it badik.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Here some fast taken pictures from my badik with similar fittings like Rolands example but with a "usual" blade shape.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I would certainly have thought this was a European bayonet blade that had been cut down, but if that's a pamor pattern I am seeing in the pics, that throws out my theory.

Great, interesting, piece under any circumstances.

European socket bayonet blade was a theory of one colleague of mine, during i was waiting for the blade. The shock was so big, my heart stops to pound for almost one Minute but at least for a few seconds.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by kronckew

i like that.

i have heard of knives that have been static on one location for a long time gaining magnetism as the iron slowly aligns itself with the local earth field. i set little credence in it until one pf mine did. it could pick up a small paper clip. can't remember which one it was now,

my badik no. one is simpler, like your other one, badek no. two is pamour bladed. note the swirl near the bolster, your black handled one seems to have a similar swirl in the pattern welding.

Thank you for your answer, an interesting theory. Only the tip and the first 5 mm are magnetic and there is no other type of steel, the pattern running through the whole surface. Quite strange.

I would polish the blade with the black hilt, the loss of material is not too big but your blade can became a real eyecandy.

Thank you for showing.


Best wishes Roland

[David]

Originally Posted by kronckew

i have heard of knives that have been static on one location for a long time gaining magnetism as the iron slowly aligns itself with the local earth field. i set little credence in it until one pf mine did. it could pick up a small paper clip. can't remember which one it was now,

Every single one of my keris has a magnetic charge Wayne. If it isn't already activated it can easily be done simply by holding the tip of the blade to a strong magnet for a few seconds.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by David

Every single one of my keris has a magnetic charge Wayne. If it isn't already activated it can easily be done simply by holding the tip of the blade to a strong magnet for a few seconds.

that's cheating tho, i was referring to naturally magnetised blades. any piece of iron or carbon steel can be magnetized using another strong magnet, or electromagnet. magnetic kitchen knife racks a noted example. some knife sheaths for modern knives incorporate a strong neodymium magnet to hold the knife in rather than a strap. i imagine that also would impart a magnetic charge on the blade. i've heard of someone who could magnetise a steel rod by hitting it on one end with a hammer to align the molecules. never tried that tho.

you can DE-magnatise iron by heating it to the curie temp (roughly 750C) but it must then be re heat treated and tempered, not recommended for a finished blade. electric degaussers would be better.

as this temp is reached during forging, carbon steel blades are initially non-magnetic, picking up a charge later in life.

some people have success degaussing by repeatedly dropping a magnetised tool on a hard floor, that again changes the magnetic field, but randomly. kinda rough on a knife tho.

[Roland_M]

[QUOTE=kronckew] any piece of iron or carbon steel can be magnetized using another strong magnet, or electromagnet.[QUOTE]

Hello,
no question about this. But this magnetism would not be permanent.
I swear, i never manipulate the blade and the sheath is made from wood and silver.

[David]

[QUOTE=Roland_M][QUOTE=kronckew] any piece of iron or carbon steel can be magnetized using another strong magnet, or electromagnet.

Hello,
no question about this. But this magnetism would not be permanent.
I swear, i never manipulate the blade and the sheath is made from wood and silver.

Roland, i am not sure what permanent would be since none of us are, but i can assure you that in my lifetime none of the blades i have activated have ever lost their magnetism, even many years later.

[David]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

I am unsure about the origin of the blade; could it be European, the tip of a small sword or so? The forging is very fine and flawless. The shape and the symmetry are close to perfection; one still can see the hammer strokes, one by another in a narrow row, breathtaking for me. It is obviously laminated steel but hard to see if folded mono-steel or pattern welded steel of more than one kind (pic 3 & 4). It needs special equipment to forge such a type of blade, like different hammers with v-shaped cuts as far as I know. This makes me believe, it could be European. What is the opinion of the experts here?

Well, i'm no "expert", but i see no reason not to accept this as an indigenous Indonesian blade. I know we have seen this form before, but i just can't find the thread yet. I'll keep searching. Perhaps someone else remembers. Believe me Roland, there are plenty examples of "fine and flawless" forging from SEA. The Europeans did not have a monopoly on such skills.

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by David

Well, i'm no "expert", but i see no reason not to accept this as an indigenous Indonesian blade. I know we have seen this form before, but i just can't find the thread yet. I'll keep searching. Perhaps someone else remembers. Believe me Roland, there are plenty examples of "fine and flawless" forging from SEA. The Europeans did not have a monopoly on such skills.

Did you mean this thread :

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=spear+bayonet

Best regards,
Willem

[asomotif]

Here is an old spear with a similar point. old rusty.
I think its sumatran.

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Did you mean this thread :

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=spear+bayonet

Best regards,
Willem

Bingo! Thanks Willem, that's the one.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by David

Well, i'm no "expert", but i see no reason not to accept this as an indigenous Indonesian blade. I know we have seen this form before, but i just can't find the thread yet. I'll keep searching. Perhaps someone else remembers. Believe me Roland, there are plenty examples of "fine and flawless" forging from SEA. The Europeans did not have a monopoly on such skills.

Tank you for your comment. Please do not misunderstand me. I am full of respect for asian forging. I have one absolutely flawless forged mandau with differential hardened blade and human hair tuft. It easily reaches best european Quality.

In the near future i will present a granular wootz dagger sculpture, which is far above european quality, simply incredible.

Best wishes Roland