Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 29th November 2023, 08:39 PM   #1
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 876
Default Beibut kindjal with early european blade ? Origin ?

Hello dear members,
It was a long time I didn't post anything.
Here is an interesting long beibut dagger I found that I would like to show you:
large military type model but with horn handle and a ''15'' written on it.
A mix between europeans and east european-asian influences
Under the scabbard, an interesting blade, I hadn't seen it before I got it, a nice surprise !
It is very rusty but with an unusual very large yelman and a Passau wolf and the initials H and M and small crosses on both sides.
a very old blade ?
the tip- bouterolle also with the leather that goes over the leather sheath seems to me unusual with ''classics'' kindjal and reminds me 18th-19rh Prussian-Austrian short swords models.
Here some pictures
Attached Images
     
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2023, 08:43 PM   #2
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 876
Default

I forgot the size: 65cm long 70 with scabbard
Attached Images
  
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2023, 12:41 AM   #3
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,620
Default

Most likely explanation would be a cut down shashka blade. European markings, including the running wolf were widely copied in the Caucasus.
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2023, 10:24 AM   #4
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 876
Default

Thank youbfor your message TVV,

yes it can be a shortened shashka blade,
I rarely seen shashka blade with such Ã* large yelman

If it's the case, the black-smith has reshaped all metal hilt part fo perfectlyr suit the grip shape,
I'll post some pictures

Kind regards
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2023, 02:22 PM   #5
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin View Post
Thank youbfor your message TVV,

yes it can be a shortened shashka blade,
I rarely seen shashka blade with such Ã* large yelman
How about a broken blade not a cut down one? Is there evidence of a scarf weld where the blade joins the hilt? I have read that some Caucasian cultures carried a second shorter blade as a backup often repurposed from a broken blade.
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2023, 05:31 PM   #6
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 876
Default

Hello

It seems to be the ''regular'' tip of the blade/shortened sword with the large yelman but it wasn't welded to a separate metal hilt.

A single piece of metal
Attached Images
      
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2023, 06:00 PM   #7
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 876
Default

Perhaps these two pictures are better...
Attached Images
  
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.