Please help ID a Spadroon

fernando · 19th February 2013, 04:40 PM

Belongs in a local fellow collector.
On one side of the blade the usual PRO PATRIA. On the other, neither word is identifiable ... nor the guy's faces.
Some help would be most welcome.

.

Jim McDougall · 19th February 2013, 05:19 PM

By the overall character of the hilt, this appears to be an English officers 'spadroon' of probably end of 18th into 1810-20. The blade motif emulates Hungarian mottos including the wording in the phrase which is associated with the 'Hungarian knot' , talismanic devices on much earlier Eastern European sabres. While these are typically regarded as infantry officers weapons, it seems likely this may be a cavalry related sword.
The military oriented motif includes the familiar 'Turks head' image and Pro Patria invocation associated with early sabre blades of Poland and Hungary of 18th century, much admired by the military fashions of the 18th century.

The spadroon is basically a straight sabre, single edged and designed for both cut and thrust. These began use around 1780s in England and typically had hilts of this type in neoclassic design. Im unclear on the device in the raised portion of the crossguard, but typically there were significant motifs incorporated within, often simple geometric figures which had particular symbolism. Key to these swords often were several balls or beads on the knuckleguard and crossguard, typically five, and most of these spadroons were termed 'five ball hilts', though some had as many as seven.

fernando · 19th February 2013, 05:27 PM

Ah, the cavalry never fails us

.
Much obliged, Jim my friend.

Jim McDougall · 19th February 2013, 05:34 PM

Thanks Nando! In looking at that device in the guard, I think it quite likely this is probably a grenadier officers, and quite honestly I havent seen this type device before in these. Can we get a better shot of it?
These swords ended up being copied by the French in a relatively strange turn in cross diffusion, and were colloquially termed ' l'Anglaise'. In America, in thier typical fascination with the French military fashion adopted these hilts during the 'Federal' period of neoclassicism in the 1810-20s, and the reeded ivory grips carried forward into swords used up to the Civil War.

fernando · 19th February 2013, 08:18 PM

I too would love to be able to read the wording, even not being able to translate/interpreter it; but the guy is the humbliest photographer.
I enticed him to take new and better pictures. I feel there is still more to go on this ID.

M ELEY · 20th February 2013, 05:16 AM

Very nice piece! Jim, I think you are right about grenadier, as the device on the extended guard does appear to be the typical 'flaming bomb' motiff. That might also indicate a French association, perhaps?

19th February 2013, 04:40 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Please help ID a Spadroon Belongs in a local fellow collector. On one side of the blade the usual PRO PATRIA. On the other, neither word is identifiable ... nor the guy's faces. Some help would be most welcome. . Attached Images

19th February 2013, 05:19 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,879	By the overall character of the hilt, this appears to be an English officers 'spadroon' of probably end of 18th into 1810-20. The blade motif emulates Hungarian mottos including the wording in the phrase which is associated with the 'Hungarian knot' , talismanic devices on much earlier Eastern European sabres. While these are typically regarded as infantry officers weapons, it seems likely this may be a cavalry related sword. The military oriented motif includes the familiar 'Turks head' image and Pro Patria invocation associated with early sabre blades of Poland and Hungary of 18th century, much admired by the military fashions of the 18th century. The spadroon is basically a straight sabre, single edged and designed for both cut and thrust. These began use around 1780s in England and typically had hilts of this type in neoclassic design. Im unclear on the device in the raised portion of the crossguard, but typically there were significant motifs incorporated within, often simple geometric figures which had particular symbolism. Key to these swords often were several balls or beads on the knuckleguard and crossguard, typically five, and most of these spadroons were termed 'five ball hilts', though some had as many as seven.

19th February 2013, 05:27 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Ah, the cavalry never fails us . Much obliged, Jim my friend.

19th February 2013, 05:34 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,879	Thanks Nando! In looking at that device in the guard, I think it quite likely this is probably a grenadier officers, and quite honestly I havent seen this type device before in these. Can we get a better shot of it? These swords ended up being copied by the French in a relatively strange turn in cross diffusion, and were colloquially termed ' l'Anglaise'. In America, in thier typical fascination with the French military fashion adopted these hilts during the 'Federal' period of neoclassicism in the 1810-20s, and the reeded ivory grips carried forward into swords used up to the Civil War.

19th February 2013, 08:18 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I too would love to be able to read the wording, even not being able to translate/interpreter it; but the guy is the humbliest photographer. I enticed him to take new and better pictures. I feel there is still more to go on this ID.

20th February 2013, 05:16 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,087	Very nice piece! Jim, I think you are right about grenadier, as the device on the extended guard does appear to be the typical 'flaming bomb' motiff. That might also indicate a French association, perhaps?