New Moro Kris Sheaths and handles for Comments

alexish · 9th June 2017, 02:20 AM

I hereby enclose some newly-made Moro Kris sheaths and handles for comments. Please also feel free to comment on the blades.

kai · 9th June 2017, 01:21 PM

Hello Alexis,

Welcome to the forum!

The piece with the fittings from light wood is a khukuri(-type) blade (dressed in pseudo-Moro fittings).

It would be good to see larger pics of all other blades including a close-up of the base of the blade.

I'm afraid that the fittings (and possibly blades) are not Moro but rather originate from Indonesia: Probably Madurese carvers - where did you obtain these?

Regards,
Kai

alexish · 9th June 2017, 02:57 PM

Yes, I commissioned these sheaths from Indonesia. The blades were all sourced from the USA, through ebay.

Just wanted to hear comments on how closely these sheaths conform to authentic Moro designs and motifs.

Sajen · 9th June 2017, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

The blades were all sourced from the USA, through ebay.

Also the khukuri blade?

From your picture it looks rather Indonesian to my eyes! Never seen a khukuri blade with pamor before!

Sajen · 9th June 2017, 06:41 PM

Frankly said I have a strange feeling by this thread and wouldn't like to comment on how closely these sheaths conform to authentic Moro designs and motifs.

See please also here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22787 & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22798 & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22807 & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22790

kai · 9th June 2017, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Also the khukuri blade?

From your picture it looks rather Indonesian to my eyes! Never seen a khukuri blade with pamor before!

Thanks, Detlef! Indid not saw the pamor on a smaller screen...

kai · 9th June 2017, 06:47 PM

Hello Alexis,

Not at all, I'm afraid! There is a vague similarity in some details and way off in many others, sorry...

If you want a Moro scabbard, you really need to reach out to Bangsamoro craftsmen (and skilled ones are not easy to find). While the Philippines have their share of gruesome fantasy fittings and pieces, there are some pieces coming out of Mindanao which have reasonable, newly made fittings. An ebay search for Davao should turn up something, I guess.

You can also contact forumites Jose Albovias or Philip Tom who have done quite a few scabbards from scratch for nekkid blades.

With both approaches it will get more expensive the more you insist on a traditional high-quality dress, obviously.

Regards,
Kai

David · 9th June 2017, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

Just wanted to hear comments on how closely these sheaths conform to authentic Moro designs and motifs.

Only in superficial ways. No one with any knowledge of Moro weapons would think this is authentic (even modern) Moro workmanship.

alexish · 9th June 2017, 10:54 PM

I hereby attach pictures of the original Moro handles and sheaths that inspired my new Sarungs.

Can someone comment on whether these are traditional Moro designs and motifs? Or are these a modern artistic expression?

F. de Luzon · 10th June 2017, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

I hereby attach pictures of the original Moro handles and sheaths that inspired my new Sarungs.

Can someone comment on whether these are traditional Moro designs and motifs? Or are these a modern artistic expression?

Hello Alexish,

The first three photos show modern pieces but they are examples of what are currently the highest quality products from the town of Tugaya in Lanao del Sur, Mindanao. Tugaya is the traditional home of the best Maranao craftsmen so your examples (post #9) are authentic Moro pieces.

For your reference, attached is a photo of a modern kris and gunong that I purchased in Davao City last year. While not as nice as the examples you provided, you will notice some similarities in the details.

May I request for a close up of the kris blade in your first picture (post #1)? I think it looks interesting.

I hope this comment is helpful.

Fernando

kai · 10th June 2017, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

I hereby attach pictures of the original Moro handles and sheaths that inspired my new Sarungs.

Can someone comment on whether these are traditional Moro designs and motifs? Or are these a modern artistic expression?

Thanks, I now see where the results are coming from.

None of your examples is traditional, old Moro style - the shapes are rather flowery and the ukkil/okir motifs tend to be off.

When you give these examples to the Indonesian carvers, they don't understand the Moro motifs and add another layer of confusion including even more flowery artistic expression. It is possible to see what example they tried to emulate but the result is just way off. IMNSHO that is...

Regards,
Kai

alexish · 9th June 2017, 11:15 PM

Additionally, I also attach pictures of the original designs that inspired the new sarung for the Pseudo-Moro Khukri. Are these authentic traditional Moro designs and motifs, or a more recent artistic expression?

kai · 10th June 2017, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Additionally, I also attach pictures of the original designs that inspired the sarung for the Pseudo-Moro Khukri. Are these authentic traditional Moro designs and motifs, or a more recent artistic expression?

Actually, this hilt is the only modern version with reasonable craftmanship shown (while he also offers the gaudy modern examples, this seller seems to have contacts to artisans who are able to do decent work) and based on a traditional style; however, if one compares this modern example with antique pieces, there is a considerable difference in quality as well as in details like ukkil!

The MOP scabbard tip is a later development (approx. mid-20th century) and again this rather gaudy motif got changed by the Indo carvers and now looks even more flowery and the MOP also got dropped...

While the fittings of this pseudo Khukuri are IMHO the best effort, it is blatantly obvious, that these are not genuine Moro style, especially nothing remotely approaching traditional styles, sorry.

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 9th June 2017, 11:47 PM

Hi Alexish:

Several people have noted that these are not decorated in the traditional Moro manner. However, I like the carving. Although somewhat "over-embellished" on a couple, at least for my taste, I can appreciate the skill that goes into these carvings and the finish that has been applied to the various woods.

While some of them are Moro-like objects, they would not pass for items from the original culture. I think many people noticed quickly that these were of Indonesian style and manufacture. An interesting interpretation of the original forms—art craft.

Thanks for showing us these pieces.

Ian.

9th June 2017, 11:15 PM	#12
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Pseudo-Moro Khukri Additionally, I also attach pictures of the original designs that inspired the new sarung for the Pseudo-Moro Khukri. Are these authentic traditional Moro designs and motifs, or a more recent artistic expression? Attached Images

9th June 2017, 02:20 AM	#1
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	New Moro Kris Sheaths and handles for Comments I hereby enclose some newly-made Moro Kris sheaths and handles for comments. Please also feel free to comment on the blades. Attached Images

9th June 2017, 01:21 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Alexis, Welcome to the forum! The piece with the fittings from light wood is a khukuri(-type) blade (dressed in pseudo-Moro fittings). It would be good to see larger pics of all other blades including a close-up of the base of the blade. I'm afraid that the fittings (and possibly blades) are not Moro but rather originate from Indonesia: Probably Madurese carvers - where did you obtain these? Regards, Kai

9th June 2017, 02:57 PM	#3
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Yes, I commissioned these sheaths from Indonesia. The blades were all sourced from the USA, through ebay. Just wanted to hear comments on how closely these sheaths conform to authentic Moro designs and motifs.

9th June 2017, 06:41 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Frankly said I have a strange feeling by this thread and wouldn't like to comment on how closely these sheaths conform to authentic Moro designs and motifs. See please also here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22787 & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22798 & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22807 & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22790

9th June 2017, 06:47 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Alexis, Not at all, I'm afraid! There is a vague similarity in some details and way off in many others, sorry... If you want a Moro scabbard, you really need to reach out to Bangsamoro craftsmen (and skilled ones are not easy to find). While the Philippines have their share of gruesome fantasy fittings and pieces, there are some pieces coming out of Mindanao which have reasonable, newly made fittings. An ebay search for Davao should turn up something, I guess. You can also contact forumites Jose Albovias or Philip Tom who have done quite a few scabbards from scratch for nekkid blades. With both approaches it will get more expensive the more you insist on a traditional high-quality dress, obviously. Regards, Kai

9th June 2017, 10:54 PM	#9
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Are these traditional Moro designs and motifs? I hereby attach pictures of the original Moro handles and sheaths that inspired my new Sarungs. Can someone comment on whether these are traditional Moro designs and motifs? Or are these a modern artistic expression? Attached Images

9th June 2017, 11:47 PM	#14
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Hi Alexish: Several people have noted that these are not decorated in the traditional Moro manner. However, I like the carving. Although somewhat "over-embellished" on a couple, at least for my taste, I can appreciate the skill that goes into these carvings and the finish that has been applied to the various woods. While some of them are Moro-like objects, they would not pass for items from the original culture. I think many people noticed quickly that these were of Indonesian style and manufacture. An interesting interpretation of the original forms—art craft. Thanks for showing us these pieces. Ian.