Interesting Spanish Canary Islands Punal

[Atlantia]

Here is a rather sweet little knife.
Have a good look at the handle as there are little thin disks of white (now dark grey) metal which are made to be slightly larger so they stick out about 1mm. I assume that this can only be to provide grip and as the handle is already a shape that gives a good grip?
But I found myself wondering about it.
Which reminded me of the early smooth handled FS Commando knives and the problems of them becomming slippery and the soldiers being unable to pull them out due to a combination of blood on the handle and wound suction. Which resulted in the later ones having the ridged handles.
Could we be seeing a similar design feature here?

[Chris Evans]

Hi Atlantia,


It is a Canary Islands `Naife', a corruption of the English word `Knife'.

These links are in Spanish but can be translated with something like Babel


http://www.terra.es/personal8/jlmmor...s-canarios.htm

And

http://armasblancas.mforos.com/933156/5569293-naifes/

Cheers
Chris

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Atlantia,


It is a Canary Islands `Naife', a corruption of the English word `Knife'.

These links are in Spanish but can be translated with something like Babel


http://www.terra.es/personal8/jlmmor...s-canarios.htm

And

http://armasblancas.mforos.com/933156/5569293-naifes/

Cheers
Chris

G'day Chris
Isn't punal the generic term for these? Not that 'me Espaniole' is very good, but it's 'dagger' isn't it? I mean, why do some call these knife and others dagger, is ther a theory that they are not 'offensive' in purpose?
What are your thoughts on the ridges?
Regards
gene

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gene,

Originally Posted by Atlantia

G'day Chris
Isn't punal the generic term for these? Not that 'me Espaniole' is very good, but it's 'dagger' isn't it?
What are your thoughts on the ridges?
Regards
gene

The Argentineans call Criollo (Creole) knives with a similar blade shape `Puñal', with the qualifier that the blade must have a false edge near the tip, not necessarily sharp, otherwise it becomes a mere `Cuchillo' (knife), or if deeply bellied, a `Cuchilla' (feminine gender). `Puño' in Spanish means fist or a clenched hand and generally the term is used to describe an edged knife used mainly for the thrust, held with an "ice pick" grip. How they came to assign this name to what is predominantly a working cutting knife is unknown to me. I should add that the strict usage of these terms is a relatively modern phenomena, introduced by historians and curators, as in the past the mostly illiterate population and even renowned literati, both in the Latin Americas and Spain, named their bladeware very loosely. To this day, the terms `facon', `puñal', `daga', `cuchillo/a' are used interchangeably by most who are not collectors.

From an utilitarian perspective, at least my own, the handle of naifes leave a lot to be desired on account of being round and thus reducing the feel for the edge, but I suppose that one can get use to it. As for purchase, I think that the changing cross section, reaching a maximum diameter near the centre affords a secure grip. I am inclined to believe that the spacers are purely decorative, though no doubt, as the softer ones wear down the harder ones will become more prominent further improving the grip.

Cheers
Chris

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Gene,




The Argentineans call Criollo (Creole) knives with a similar blade shape `Puñal', with the qualifier that the blade must have a false edge near the tip, not necessarily sharp, otherwise it becomes a mere `Cuchillo' (knife), or if deeply bellied, a `Cuchilla' (feminine gender). `Puño' in Spanish means fist or a clenched hand and generally the term is used to describe an edged knife used mainly for the thrust, held with an "ice pick" grip. How they came to assign this name to what is predominantly a working cutting knife is unknown to me. I should add that the strict usage of these terms is a relatively modern phenomena, introduced by historians and curators, as in the past the mostly illiterate population and even renowned literati, both in the Latin Americas and Spain, named their bladeware very loosely. To this day, the terms `facon', `puñal', `daga', `cuchillo/a' are used interchangeably by most who are not collectors.

From an utilitarian perspective, at least my own, the handle of naifes leave a lot to be desired on account of being round and thus reducing the feel for the edge, but I suppose that one can get use to it. As for purchase, I think that the changing cross section, reaching a maximum diameter near the centre affords a secure grip. I am inclined to believe that the spacers are purely decorative, though no doubt, as the softer ones wear down the harder ones will become more prominent further improving the grip.

Cheers
Chris

I'm happy with either designation to be honest. I think these are a bit of a missed opportunity in the colllecting field as they are rather nice.
I've had a proper Albacete punal for a while and have missed getting a few of these canary 'baby brothers' on ebay I was delighted to find this one at a boot-sale last week.
I completely see why you'd think it was the rest of the handle had worn down but its actually the other way around and the metal spacers are soft but raised. Definately there to afford better grip....Which is why I thought it was worthy of a thread.

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gene,

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I'm happy with either designation to be honest. I think these are a bit of a missed opportunity in the colllecting field as they are rather nice.
I've had a proper Albacete punal for a while and have missed getting a few of these canary 'baby brothers' on ebay I was delighted to find this one at a boot-sale last week.

I am with you on this one - They are rather eye catching.

I completely see why you'd think it was the rest of the handle had worn down but its actually the other way around and the metal spacers are soft but raised. Definately there to afford better grip....Which is why I thought it was worthy of a thread.

Given that they are hand made, at least used to be, I wonder how they intentionally achieved that effect. I mean, the oversized disks are easy enough, but were the others polished/filed down? Can you see abrasion or wear marks on the spacers in the valleys?

In that second link I gave, you can see how they are made and would appear that they aim for a smooth finish. Of course, being made one at a time they can cater for individual requests and preferences. Judging from the photos, it would seem that a number of the spacers were not abraded down - Just a thought, could it be an unfinished knife?
Cheers
Chris

[celtan]

One of mine FS daggers.

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Here is a rather sweet little knife.
Have a good look at the handle as there are little thin disks of white (now dark grey) metal which are made to be slightly larger so they stick out about 1mm. I assume that this can only be to provide grip and as the handle is already a shape that gives a good grip?
But I found myself wondering about it.
Which reminded me of the early smooth handled FS Commando knives and the problems of them becomming slippery and the soldiers being unable to pull them out due to a combination of blood on the handle and wound suction. Which resulted in the later ones having the ridged handles.
Could we be seeing a similar design feature here?

Dear Atlantia, the Canary Knife is a classical model related very closely with the antique mediterranean knife. This kind of handle is found even in the old knives from an area of Mexico dedicated at least from the 19th Century (if not from the 18th Century) to the craft of all kind of edged weapons, Sayula. I have one knife from my father, and its handle is almost identical to the canarian knive´s handles, though mine has a crossguard and a blade based on a very antique spanish-mexican model, resembling the Bowie knife´s blade. Those handles were made smooth and they are were very confortable in the hand. They were multipurpose working knives, though used as a weapon when needed. The FS daggers comes from an old model used widely in Europe as a fighting weapon. It has not new ideas in it´s conception, but the adaptation to specific needs, those of the british commandos. The metal handles were already used, and the design of special features to add ´grip´to the handle, were also very well known.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Dear Atlantia, the Canary Knife is a classical model related very closely with the antique mediterranean knife. This kind of handle is found even in the old knives from an area of Mexico dedicated at least from the 19th Century (if not from the 18th Century) to the craft of all kind of edged weapons, Sayula. I have one knife from my father, and its handle is almost identical to the canarian knive´s handles, though mine has a crossguard and a blade based on a very antique spanish-mexican model, resembling the Bowie knife´s blade. Those handles were made smooth and they are were very confortable in the hand. They were multipurpose working knives, though used as a weapon when needed. The FS daggers comes from an old model used widely in Europe as a fighting weapon. It has not new ideas in it´s conception, but the adaptation to specific needs, those of the british commandos. The metal handles were already used, and the design of special features to add ´grip´to the handle, were also very well known.
Regards

Gonzalo

Gonzalo my friend
Thank you for joining the thread, and especially for mentioning my modest little Canary knife. I am finding these rather interesting. I wonder if there are any collectors who are experienced enough to identify towns/dates/ even makers themselves from the different handle patterns?

I have learned much from this thread about definitions and correct terminology
What are your thoughts on the strange metal disks in the handle? They seem deliberate additions after the others disks were polished, but that would mean that the handle was polished then the disks were added, which is why they reminded me of the later FS patterns with the improved 'grip'.
Thing is, the disks are fairly thin and rather soft metal. I'm a little puzzled by them.
Also, this is a rather more complex handled example than most I've seen, although the blade is fairly average, why have these rather horrible disks sticking out if not for a reason?
Do you think they are just a mistake/unfinished element?

Kindest Regards
Gene