unusual african dagger covered in cowrie shells

chiefheadknocker · 7th April 2019, 02:24 PM

This is an unusual dagger ,I presume African , ive never seen one before like this , though im unsure of its age , the blade looks well made,
whats your opinion?

Ferguson · 7th April 2019, 03:20 PM

Could it be a Bou Saada/Saadi or Khodmi from Algeria that has been decorated with the shells? The blade has almost a flyssa shape.

Not my area of expertise. Wait, I have no expertise!

Steve

Sajen · 7th April 2019, 07:00 PM

Yes, it's a bou saadi from Algeria like Steve stated. There are other blades from Algeria covered with shells, do a little bit search here and you will find similar knives.

Regards,
Detlef

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2019, 07:11 PM

While I too claim no expertise, I can easily bang away on this Fisher-Price keyboard and find stuff online. Steve is right, the character of the blade here is of flyssa form, and the general size puts it in the 'khodmi' knife range.

The shells are of course West African cowries, which were used until early 20th century as currency in those regions. While replaced by French currencies, the natives still maintained the amuletic properties of these shells. The markings on flyssa blades are also typically talismanic so the combining of these shells and this blade render this knife, Algerian and West African elements, somewhere in the Mali sphere. I would say 20th c. probably early.

Kubur · 7th April 2019, 07:33 PM

Hi
It's a flyssa knife
I don't think it has to do with bou saidi or khodmi knives... There are no evidences for it.
To be sure you have to remove the leather to see the original hilt and scabbard.
Even the shape of the scabbard sheath looks like the flyssa ones.
For an unknown reason the knife was embellished in Senegal with Cowries probably in the 20th c, but the flyssa knife is probably earlier end of 19th c.
Kubur

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2019, 08:19 PM

It does seem like when we enter into these 'hybrid' type pieces, which were inevitable with networks of trade routes which traversed the Sahara, and the movements of tribal groups such as the Berber confederation, the dreaded 'name game' becomes even more impossible.

So reference is made to the Khodami knife or Bou Saadi. ….and wondering what that means, I looked to Bou Saada, which is a region south of Algiers, in the M'Sila province. Often weapons are classified by regions they are common in, so that would seem logical.

But this blade is clearly that of the flyssa, the edged weapon of the tribes in Kabylia, a region in the north of Algeria, in area of Tell Atlas mountains and coastal Mediterranean.

Looking into the term Khodami, it perhaps refers to the Khodam or Djinn, Angelic guardians or helpers in Islamic Magick. This is profoundly out of my range of understanding so I cannot elaborate, but I would merely suggest that the term 'khodami' may refer to such properties in these knives.
I would leave further elucidation to the 'experts'.

So what do we call a knife with blade type and other features of the Kabyle flyssa, but embellished with West African cowrie shells, these elements from considerably distant regions?

Here is a knife which is apparently imbued with talismanic properties of two regions and cultural differences, but joined together as a result of the diffusion of influences via probably trade and intertribal contacts.

Should we call it 'khodmi', as it carries notable talismanic character as noted, or Bou Saadi, in accord with knives of similar size from Algerian and Moroccan regions?
Or should we call it 'flyssa' with West African cowrie shells?

Its like having a 1950 Ford Tudor, and dropping in a Corvette '350' engine. Do we call it a 50 Ford; A chevy; or a Corvette?

Attached is a 'Khodmi' or Bou Saada knife. Artzi had a similar knife to that posted in the orig post with cowrie shells and described as 'flyssa knife with cowrie shells'.
Perhaps that would be most reasonable classification as the flyssa blade predominates the entirety of the knife.

chiefheadknocker · 7th April 2019, 08:40 PM

Thanks for all your replies , and for shredding some light upon it , I didn't have a clue when I bought it ,I just thought it was different , I cant see it being very practical with all the shells , I wondered if it was a tourist piece but the blade does look quite well made

Sajen · 9th April 2019, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Attached is a 'Khodmi' or Bou Saada knife.

Hello Jim,

this don't look like a khodmi but like a Corsican dagger!? I am surprised that nobody has noticed this until now.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 9th April 2019, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker

This is an unusual dagger ,I presume African , ive never seen one before like this , though im unsure of its age , the blade looks well made,
whats your opinion?

May I ask how long is this dagger?

chiefheadknocker · 10th April 2019, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

May I ask how long is this dagger?

Hi there ,the total measurement is 40 cm , blade alone is 24 cm

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th April 2019, 08:16 PM

Here another cowrie shell decorated scabbard. The details at http://ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_2_...ber_2012/27.pdf are amazing.

See also https://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/mag...vh9/index.html for the story of monetary systems in East Africa..

Peter B. · 6th October 2021, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Here another cowrie shell decorated scabbard. The details at http://ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_2_...ber_2012/27.pdf are amazing.

The thread is a bit older, but can someone tell me something about the origin of this knife posted by Ibrahiim?
I have a similar one, sold as coming from Uganda, but I have also seen specimens that have been ascribed to the Yoruba (Nigeria).
Does anyone know the link given here completely?

Ian · 7th October 2021, 11:09 AM

Peter, posting a picture of your knife would be helpful. Ian

Sajen · 10th April 2019, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker

Hi there ,the total measurement is 40 cm , blade alone is 24 cm

In this case Kubur is correct, it's a short flyssa knife!

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 10th April 2019, 11:59 PM

Here you can see similar ones: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=flyssa+cowrie & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11836

Kubur · 11th April 2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Here you can see similar ones: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=flyssa+cowrie

as always

But I realy don't know if the cowries were added for local use and local taste or for touristic taste and market...

7th April 2019, 02:24 PM	#1
chiefheadknocker Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 143	unusual african dagger covered in cowrie shells This is an unusual dagger ,I presume African , ive never seen one before like this , though im unsure of its age , the blade looks well made, whats your opinion? Attached Images

7th April 2019, 08:19 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	It does seem like when we enter into these 'hybrid' type pieces, which were inevitable with networks of trade routes which traversed the Sahara, and the movements of tribal groups such as the Berber confederation, the dreaded 'name game' becomes even more impossible. So reference is made to the Khodami knife or Bou Saadi. ….and wondering what that means, I looked to Bou Saada, which is a region south of Algiers, in the M'Sila province. Often weapons are classified by regions they are common in, so that would seem logical. But this blade is clearly that of the flyssa, the edged weapon of the tribes in Kabylia, a region in the north of Algeria, in area of Tell Atlas mountains and coastal Mediterranean. Looking into the term Khodami, it perhaps refers to the Khodam or Djinn, Angelic guardians or helpers in Islamic Magick. This is profoundly out of my range of understanding so I cannot elaborate, but I would merely suggest that the term 'khodami' may refer to such properties in these knives. I would leave further elucidation to the 'experts'. So what do we call a knife with blade type and other features of the Kabyle flyssa, but embellished with West African cowrie shells, these elements from considerably distant regions? Here is a knife which is apparently imbued with talismanic properties of two regions and cultural differences, but joined together as a result of the diffusion of influences via probably trade and intertribal contacts. Should we call it 'khodmi', as it carries notable talismanic character as noted, or Bou Saadi, in accord with knives of similar size from Algerian and Moroccan regions? Or should we call it 'flyssa' with West African cowrie shells? Its like having a 1950 Ford Tudor, and dropping in a Corvette '350' engine. Do we call it a 50 Ford; A chevy; or a Corvette? Attached is a 'Khodmi' or Bou Saada knife. Artzi had a similar knife to that posted in the orig post with cowrie shells and described as 'flyssa knife with cowrie shells'. Perhaps that would be most reasonable classification as the flyssa blade predominates the entirety of the knife. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 7th April 2019 at 08:35 PM.

10th April 2019, 08:16 PM	#11
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Here another cowrie shell decorated scabbard. The details at http://ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_2_...ber_2012/27.pdf are amazing. See also https://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/mag...vh9/index.html for the story of monetary systems in East Africa.. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 10th April 2019 at 08:49 PM.

7th April 2019, 03:20 PM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Could it be a Bou Saada/Saadi or Khodmi from Algeria that has been decorated with the shells? The blade has almost a flyssa shape. Not my area of expertise. Wait, I have no expertise! Steve

7th April 2019, 07:00 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Yes, it's a bou saadi from Algeria like Steve stated. There are other blades from Algeria covered with shells, do a little bit search here and you will find similar knives. Regards, Detlef

7th April 2019, 07:11 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	While I too claim no expertise, I can easily bang away on this Fisher-Price keyboard and find stuff online. Steve is right, the character of the blade here is of flyssa form, and the general size puts it in the 'khodmi' knife range. The shells are of course West African cowries, which were used until early 20th century as currency in those regions. While replaced by French currencies, the natives still maintained the amuletic properties of these shells. The markings on flyssa blades are also typically talismanic so the combining of these shells and this blade render this knife, Algerian and West African elements, somewhere in the Mali sphere. I would say 20th c. probably early.

7th April 2019, 07:33 PM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi It's a flyssa knife I don't think it has to do with bou saidi or khodmi knives... There are no evidences for it. To be sure you have to remove the leather to see the original hilt and scabbard. Even the shape of the scabbard sheath looks like the flyssa ones. For an unknown reason the knife was embellished in Senegal with Cowries probably in the 20th c, but the flyssa knife is probably earlier end of 19th c. Kubur

7th April 2019, 08:40 PM	#7
chiefheadknocker Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 143	Thanks for all your replies , and for shredding some light upon it , I didn't have a clue when I bought it ,I just thought it was different , I cant see it being very practical with all the shells , I wondered if it was a tourist piece but the blade does look quite well made

7th October 2021, 11:09 AM	#13
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Peter, posting a picture of your knife would be helpful. Ian

10th April 2019, 11:59 PM	#15
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Here you can see similar ones: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=flyssa+cowrie & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11836