Indo-persian spear for comment/translation

russel · 11th September 2013, 10:20 PM

Hello all,

I recently bought this short Indo-Persian spear. It was a foolish impulse purchase (I was cruising on a wave of recent successes). I really don’t know what I have here, I hope I haven’t blown my money. It came from the estate of a noted collector, but “in the hand” it doesn’t feel quite right. Can anyone shed light on its origin and perhaps a translation.

Cheers,
Russel

Iain · 11th September 2013, 10:37 PM

Interesting item - what's the length? Perhaps my sense of scale is off, but it looks more like a throwing dart/javelin to me? But the head shape would be peculiar for that.

looking forward to reading others' comments, insights into this one!

russel · 11th September 2013, 11:48 PM

Sorry, I should have mentioned length. 128cm. I'll weight it when I get a chance.

colin henshaw · 12th September 2013, 12:49 PM

Hi Russel

Another interesting piece. I think this belongs to that genre of Sudanese weapons and other artefacts, supposedly from the Mahdist period. The stylised acid etched "thuluth" Arabic is typical, as is brass wire inlay. Sheet iron is also often used. I've seen the following types of objects falling into this category - swords, various daggers, axes, throwing knives, maces and processional standards "alams", but never a spear such as this... I have seen the coffee pot motif on some items before.

A nice piece, congratulations. There are other examples of this genre to be found on this forum. Some ascribe these objects to the Mahdist period, however I feel that a portion of them at least, were produced post-Battle of Omdurman for sale to Europeans. Often they appear non-functional with a more decorative quality.

Regards, Colin

PS. It also has the appearance of an African spear - so possibly it could have been for use of leaders of those elements of the Mahdist army that were of black African origin. This is a theory that has been put forward in respect of throwing knives of a similar style...

Iain · 12th September 2013, 03:06 PM

I was thinking about the Sudanese possibility as well Colin. Perhaps a member can make out something of the script? The crescent and star symbol seen on the blade was of course common in the Madiyah and Khalifa - see attached image of the Mahdi's tomb taken in 1936.

Of course that's far from conclusive but I just wanted to illustrate the possibility.

I happen to agree with Colin about many of the thuluth items from Sudan and their likely period of production. Although that's not a judgement on this specific piece.

11th September 2013, 10:20 PM	#1
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	Indo-persian spear for comment/translation Hello all, I recently bought this short Indo-Persian spear. It was a foolish impulse purchase (I was cruising on a wave of recent successes). I really don’t know what I have here, I hope I haven’t blown my money. It came from the estate of a noted collector, but “in the hand” it doesn’t feel quite right. Can anyone shed light on its origin and perhaps a translation. Cheers, Russel Attached Images

12th September 2013, 03:06 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	I was thinking about the Sudanese possibility as well Colin. Perhaps a member can make out something of the script? The crescent and star symbol seen on the blade was of course common in the Madiyah and Khalifa - see attached image of the Mahdi's tomb taken in 1936. Of course that's far from conclusive but I just wanted to illustrate the possibility. I happen to agree with Colin about many of the thuluth items from Sudan and their likely period of production. Although that's not a judgement on this specific piece. Attached Images

11th September 2013, 10:37 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Interesting item - what's the length? Perhaps my sense of scale is off, but it looks more like a throwing dart/javelin to me? But the head shape would be peculiar for that. looking forward to reading others' comments, insights into this one!

11th September 2013, 11:48 PM	#3
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	Sorry, I should have mentioned length. 128cm. I'll weight it when I get a chance.

12th September 2013, 12:49 PM	#4
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi Russel Another interesting piece. I think this belongs to that genre of Sudanese weapons and other artefacts, supposedly from the Mahdist period. The stylised acid etched "thuluth" Arabic is typical, as is brass wire inlay. Sheet iron is also often used. I've seen the following types of objects falling into this category - swords, various daggers, axes, throwing knives, maces and processional standards "alams", but never a spear such as this... I have seen the coffee pot motif on some items before. A nice piece, congratulations. There are other examples of this genre to be found on this forum. Some ascribe these objects to the Mahdist period, however I feel that a portion of them at least, were produced post-Battle of Omdurman for sale to Europeans. Often they appear non-functional with a more decorative quality. Regards, Colin PS. It also has the appearance of an African spear - so possibly it could have been for use of leaders of those elements of the Mahdist army that were of black African origin. This is a theory that has been put forward in respect of throwing knives of a similar style...