17th Century Scottish Iron Bill

Cathey · 30th July 2018, 07:43 AM

Hi Guys

Another item I am photographing for a friend that I have not seen in the flesh before and know nothing about. It has been described as a 17th Century Scottish Iron Bill, with a makers mark. The mark seems strange to me as it is the word “RISON” or perhaps “BISON” stamped into the metal. I have no reference to this sought of stamp and/or the Rison or Bison in any of my library and was wondering if anyone has come across this before. Also the style and shape of this item is not what is usually seen in reference books on Scottish pole arms.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

RobertGuy · 30th July 2018, 08:15 AM

Well BISON makes axes and agricultural tools in Germany to the current day. To me, this looks more agricultural 19th century than a Scottish weapon from the 1600s

fernando · 30th July 2018, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertGuy

To me, this looks more agricultural 19th century than a Scottish weapon from the 1600s

Agreed ! Also it appears that, the term BISON (wild animal) is spelled the same way in English as in German.

Madnumforce · 31st July 2018, 09:58 AM

Being a billhook collector, this is obviously a late 19th, early 20th century billhook, and I would say very likely French. Germany doesn't have a great tradition of billhooks, and I may be wrong, but I've never seen one with a socket like this made to be mounted on a pole. These, with the large hook in the back, are specifically designed for debranching: you chop the branch, and the hook is used to catch the branch and bring it down if it is stuck.

I don't have that very exact pattern in my catalogues, but these two come pretty close. From the Revolier catalogue from around the 20's I scanned and is available on the internet, and see Bob Burgess website for more catalogues. But unlike hand-held billhooks, these pole billhooks don't have a strong local identity and recognizable traits. And basically, the same kind of tool could also be found in Italy, Spain or Portugal. Maybe Germany also, but that would be unusual.

Estimated value: no more than 30€. 10€ is more like it. If you friend paid for this as a 17th century Scottish bill, he got screwed big big time.

fernando · 31st July 2018, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madnumforce

... Being a billhook collector, this is obviously a late 19th, early 20th century billhook, and I would say very likely French... Germany doesn't have a great tradition of billhooks ... And basically, the same kind of tool could also be found in Italy, Spain or Portugal. Maybe Germany also, but that would be unusual...

Wise words Madnumforce. Actually i was going to remember in my previous post that the term Bison also has the same spell in french, but i thought i was diverting. Indeed these "podoas" can also be found in large numbers in Portugal ... both in flea markets and also in current use. I once had a fine example with some age, but i let it go ... and must have erased its pictures, except for this tiny one, kept from some smith's marks discussions.

.

Timo Nieminen · 5th August 2018, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madnumforce

These, with the large hook in the back, are specifically designed for debranching: you chop the branch, and the hook is used to catch the branch and bring it down if it is stuck.

The hook is also good for standing the billhook stably, point down on, e.g., a stump, for sharpening.

bvieira · 5th August 2018, 10:56 AM

Hello,

It's a agriculture tool, early XX Century.

Regards,

BV

30th July 2018, 07:43 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	17th Century Scottish Iron Bill Hi Guys Another item I am photographing for a friend that I have not seen in the flesh before and know nothing about. It has been described as a 17th Century Scottish Iron Bill, with a makers mark. The mark seems strange to me as it is the word “RISON” or perhaps “BISON” stamped into the metal. I have no reference to this sought of stamp and/or the Rison or Bison in any of my library and was wondering if anyone has come across this before. Also the style and shape of this item is not what is usually seen in reference books on Scottish pole arms. Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

31st July 2018, 09:58 AM	#4
Madnumforce Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 28	Being a billhook collector, this is obviously a late 19th, early 20th century billhook, and I would say very likely French. Germany doesn't have a great tradition of billhooks, and I may be wrong, but I've never seen one with a socket like this made to be mounted on a pole. These, with the large hook in the back, are specifically designed for debranching: you chop the branch, and the hook is used to catch the branch and bring it down if it is stuck. I don't have that very exact pattern in my catalogues, but these two come pretty close. From the Revolier catalogue from around the 20's I scanned and is available on the internet, and see Bob Burgess website for more catalogues. But unlike hand-held billhooks, these pole billhooks don't have a strong local identity and recognizable traits. And basically, the same kind of tool could also be found in Italy, Spain or Portugal. Maybe Germany also, but that would be unusual. Estimated value: no more than 30€. 10€ is more like it. If you friend paid for this as a 17th century Scottish bill, he got screwed big big time. Attached Images Last edited by Madnumforce; 31st July 2018 at 10:16 AM.

30th July 2018, 08:15 AM	#2
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Well BISON makes axes and agricultural tools in Germany to the current day. To me, this looks more agricultural 19th century than a Scottish weapon from the 1600s

5th August 2018, 10:56 AM	#7
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	Hello, It's a agriculture tool, early XX Century. Regards, BV