Identification Help Needed

Robert · 17th December 2012, 05:15 AM

Just picked up this interesting item from epray and now need everyones help in its identification. It was listed as "Antique Indo Persian Mughal Ottoman Turkish Ram Dagger Knanjar Knife Scabbard" but if it is I have never seen one like it. It has a carved horn hilt with a 9 inch blade and an overall length of 13 inches. A few auction pictures below. Any and all help that is offered will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Robert

Dom · 17th December 2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

I was listed as "Antique Indo Persian Mughal Ottoman Turkish Ram Dagger Knanjar Knife Scabbard" but if it is I have never seen one like it.

Hi Robert
i've really a big doubt about the classification as ;
- Indo Persian Mughal Ottoman Turkish
as you said; I have never seen one like it ... me too

i'm watching it ... more from Asia, even, from Far-East

interresting and pleasant knife anyway, good catch

all the best

à +

Dom

Sajen · 17th December 2012, 10:55 AM

Hello Robert,

uups, you did it again!

Now I know who bid me out! Don't worry, I know it now in good hands.

When I would have win it this thread will be from me since I also don't know what it is but think that it is a Visayan utilty knife when I look to the scabbard. Let us see what others will tell us.
BTW, very nice and interesting knife!

Best regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 17th December 2012, 11:12 AM

Look for example the scabbard from my tenegre, very similar brass attachments.

Robert · 17th December 2012, 03:31 PM

Hello Dom, and thank you for your kind words. To say the least the description is very misleading. I too believe that this is from South-East Asia, possibly the Philippines.
Detlef, I am sorry if I out bid you on this but because of the way epray is hiding the bidders identity I did not know that you were bidding on it. I use a bidding service and placed a bid on this when it was first listed and do not check back until the auction is over. This keeps me from getting caught up in the bidding and possibly bidding more than I want or can afford on an item.
What caught my eye on this piece is that it looks to be sharpened on the longer of the two sides of the blade and the strange carving of the hilt. The horn itself on this piece also looks a bit odd. While the scabbard does look like it might be from the Visayans I believe that I have also seen scabbards of this style on Thai pieces. I too am waiting to see what the experts have to say about this interesting knife. I am adding a couple of somewhat clearer pictures of the hilt that will hopefully help show the carving and the graining of the horn better. Thank you both for your help and interest.

Regards,
Robert

Rick · 17th December 2012, 05:14 PM

Interesting to see an elephant depicted on a Philippine knife if that is where it came from .

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2012, 05:20 PM

Good point Rick. The scabbard is like many from Burma. There be elephants?

Sajen · 17th December 2012, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Interesting to see an elephant depicted on a Philippine knife if that is where it came from .

Hello Rick,

I am not sure if it should be an elepfant.

The seller write in his description ram head, a good imagination IMHO.

Tim,

yes there are elephants in Burma. That it could come from there is an option.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 17th December 2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

What caught my eye on this piece is that it looks to be sharpened on the longer of the two sides of the blade and the strange carving of the hilt.

The blade shape remember to the sangi knifes from the Bagobo, see in up from the attached picture.

Robert · 17th December 2012, 07:47 PM

I know that I have seen this blade profile before but as usual I cannot remember where.

The hilt on the other hand with the elephant head carving is something for me all together new. The hilt material is also got me a little confused, where on carabao horn you can usually see layering this has more of a stacked rod appearance to it to my eye. What are everyones thoughts on that?

Regards,
Robert

17th December 2012, 05:15 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Identification Help Needed Just picked up this interesting item from epray and now need everyones help in its identification. It was listed as "Antique Indo Persian Mughal Ottoman Turkish Ram Dagger Knanjar Knife Scabbard" but if it is I have never seen one like it. It has a carved horn hilt with a 9 inch blade and an overall length of 13 inches. A few auction pictures below. Any and all help that is offered will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 17th December 2012 at 12:14 PM.

17th December 2012, 10:55 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	Hello Robert, uups, you did it again! Now I know who bid me out! Don't worry, I know it now in good hands. When I would have win it this thread will be from me since I also don't know what it is but think that it is a Visayan utilty knife when I look to the scabbard. Let us see what others will tell us. BTW, very nice and interesting knife! Best regards, Detlef Last edited by Sajen; 17th December 2012 at 02:04 PM.

17th December 2012, 11:12 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	Look for example the scabbard from my tenegre, very similar brass attachments. Attached Images

17th December 2012, 03:31 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Dom, and thank you for your kind words. To say the least the description is very misleading. I too believe that this is from South-East Asia, possibly the Philippines. Detlef, I am sorry if I out bid you on this but because of the way epray is hiding the bidders identity I did not know that you were bidding on it. I use a bidding service and placed a bid on this when it was first listed and do not check back until the auction is over. This keeps me from getting caught up in the bidding and possibly bidding more than I want or can afford on an item. What caught my eye on this piece is that it looks to be sharpened on the longer of the two sides of the blade and the strange carving of the hilt. The horn itself on this piece also looks a bit odd. While the scabbard does look like it might be from the Visayans I believe that I have also seen scabbards of this style on Thai pieces. I too am waiting to see what the experts have to say about this interesting knife. I am adding a couple of somewhat clearer pictures of the hilt that will hopefully help show the carving and the graining of the horn better. Thank you both for your help and interest. Regards, Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 17th December 2012 at 03:46 PM.

17th December 2012, 05:14 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Interesting to see an elephant depicted on a Philippine knife if that is where it came from .

17th December 2012, 05:20 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Good point Rick. The scabbard is like many from Burma. There be elephants?

17th December 2012, 07:47 PM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I know that I have seen this blade profile before but as usual I cannot remember where. The hilt on the other hand with the elephant head carving is something for me all together new. The hilt material is also got me a little confused, where on carabao horn you can usually see layering this has more of a stacked rod appearance to it to my eye. What are everyones thoughts on that? Regards, Robert